i see little overlap with sending humans to mars. i dont think its a great way to send people such a distance (and expect to get them back) by cutting corners in planning, redundancy, etc. And its my understanding that the bulk of the costs of going there is getting all the fuel and supplies from earth to there, which is not solved by paying rocket scientists 1000$ a month. NASA already operates on a shoestring budge…
From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
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Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#72What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…
I didn't downvote, but I felt a mood-affiliation reason to downvote in that trying our darnedest to never contaminate Mars will stop us from colonizing Mars. Separately: Over the course of billions of years, rocks have moved from Earth to Mars and back. If colonization were a matter of just moving from one to the other, it would have happened already. In fact, answering that question seems very scientifically useful,…
I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not?
Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field experts in moments?
Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#73What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…
I hate being this guy, but the euphemism is to "jibe" with, not "jive".
Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#74I'd like to know the hardware cost and number of man-hours put into each mission. Labor is a large part of a creating and operating a spacecraft, so comparing man-hours eliminates the differences you might find due to the expected rate of the engineers in each country. I should also note that when I say "hardware cost", I'm also including a break-down for each sub-contractor (and sub-sub, sub-sub-sub, etc) since you…
If India can field rocket scientists greatly more cheaply than the US, I'd submit that still says something important about the two countries. "I should also note that when I say "hardware cost", I'm also including a break-down for each sub-contractor (and sub-sub, sub-sub-sub, etc)" One nice thing about money in a mostly free economy is that you can use it as a bound on such things. If you can buy a widget at $5, th…
I never claimed what they accomplished wasn't impressive. I tend to think their entry level rocket scientists (at $1000) generated some of the savings but what was the "mindset" that allowed the rest of the savings?
Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hate being this guy, but the euphemism is to "jibe" with, not "jive".
Not to be entirely off-topic, but what is jibe a euphemism for?
Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#76The article mentions "jugaad" as the Indian way of doing things inexpensively. It roughly means a "hack", and it really is very fundamental to the Indian engineering brain. I once read a list of interesting words in foreign languages and Portuguese had something similar. I think all engineering teams should have at least one jugaadu person on it.
Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand why colonizing Mars seems so important and urgent to you (and many other people around these parts, you're not the first one I see taking that approach) that you're willing to risk ruining evidence that could lead us to a better understanding of life itself. I mean, I'm all for space exploration and everything, don't misinterpret what I'm saying, but let's say we manage to get on Mars, establish a…
> In the long run we manage to terraform the planet, maybe. Now what? We get a new retirement centre on Mars? We might get new resources. There are many wars happening that are all about resources. Also, we might get space, which could reduce tensions on earth. > I'm not so sure I'm willing to believe we would be "improving" Mars in the long run. What could we possibly do to Mars, that in practical terms could make i…
The problem is that we grow exponentially. How long would a 2nd earth last us at our current rate or expansion and resource consumption? Not to mention the massive amount of resources we'll have to take from earth in order to reach Mars and make in inhabitable.
> What could we possibly do to Mars, that in practical terms could make it worse? It's uninhabitable already. If it matters so much to you, then I ask you if the same applies to some planet a billion light years away from us.
It's uninhabitable for us alright, but it's not like we already knew everything about Mars. The whole point of my argument (and the reason NASA is careful about not contaminating marsian soil) is because we don't know what we could find.
And no, it wouldn't matter to me if mars was a billion light years away from us. If we could easily reach new and unexplored planets I wouldn't be objecting to messing with Mars (after all, there are billions of other specimen for us to study), but that's obviously not realistic in the short term (for a big value of "short").
> Or we could also work with what we can reach. I mean it's obviously bad, that Dodos are extinct now, but was life better a thousand years ago, when we were unable to reach and work with oil and gas, even though Dodos still existed?
I'm not sure what's the argument, do you think the colonization of Mauritius and the extinction of the dodo made humanity progress significantly?
As in all things, there's a middle ground to be found, we don't need to destroy in order to move forward.
Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't downvote, but I felt a mood-affiliation reason to downvote in that trying our darnedest to never contaminate Mars will stop us from colonizing Mars. Separately: Over the course of billions of years, rocks have moved from Earth to Mars and back. If colonization were a matter of just moving from one to the other, it would have happened already. In fact, answering that question seems very scientifically useful,…
I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…
But what do you think I've said in the comment you replied to that trumps NASA's design decisions? That sterilization is unimportant? I think NASA sterilizing the equipment it uses to detect life is obviously the right design decision. There are results from the Voyager program that are still uncertain because of incomplete sterilization.
Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#79Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank
#80Seems like a pretty ill conceived article. Might as well have written about how American car companies like GM are able to produce much less expensive cars than the Italians like Ferrari. Both cars have engines, tires, etc... but WOW, can the Americans do it for so much less...