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The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

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Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#71

Post by macspoofing »

FiloSottile wrote: post #33
codexon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel sorry for malware writers. They are not oppressed and deserve what they got. And this guy also stole people's software keys. If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route.

> If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route. Let me guess: you are a US citizen, or anyway live in a country where developer positions abound. Well, not everyone is. Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses. Also this was before Freelancer.com, be…

I think you're being a tad melodramatic. I think this guy should be held accountable because he did wrong. The 2 years of probation he got feels reasonable.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#72

Post by psykotic »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
FiloSottile wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they were talented coders, they could've found less destructive ways to make money. But he decided to go the greedy route. Let me guess: you are a US citizen, or anyway live in a country where developer positions abound. Well, not everyone is. Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses. Also this was before Freelancer.com, be…

Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses. That's a legitimate programming job. Cool software rarely makes money. Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Then you stumble upon a IRC channel and a world of challenges opens in front of you. A book is far more challenging, because in an IRC channel y…

> Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much.

Your thinking must be stuck in the last century. By the time I entered the game industry 13 years ago, salaries were already on par with the software industry at large. My first full-time position was in 2003 and paid $85,000/year. Based on the numbers I've seen, game programmers currently earn significantly more than web developers with an equivalent amount of experience, despite the wage-inflationary effect of the VC money faucet.

The coolness factor used to play a greater role. I would say it still affects the supply side for QA, design and very entry-level positions in programming. For programmers with any level of competency and experience, its role is negligible.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#73

Post by DerpDerpDerp »

ekianjo wrote: post #62
benihana wrote: post #57

"Have you any idea how lucky you are that we got to you before you got on that plane?" The difference in the way he was treated by police and the justice system (and how different it is than what we've come to expect in America) is what struck me the most about this story.

> The difference in the way he was treated by police and the justice system (and how different it is than what we've come to expect in America) is what struck me the most about this story. The fact that they were setting a trap for him was also relatively shocking. Don't they have to follow due process?

What part of inviting a criminal you've gathered significant recorded evidence against (eg, their own telephone confession) to a place you can arrest him do you think violates due process?

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#74

Post by ekianjo »

DerpDerpDerp wrote: post #73
ekianjo wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference in the way he was treated by police and the justice system (and how different it is than what we've come to expect in America) is what struck me the most about this story. The fact that they were setting a trap for him was also relatively shocking. Don't they have to follow due process?

What part of inviting a criminal you've gathered significant recorded evidence against (eg, their own telephone confession) to a place you can arrest him do you think violates due process?

Well, lying about your true intent. It's not like he knew he was going to be arrested.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#75

Post by oscargrouch »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #48
dsuth wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice black-and-white view of humanity. I felt for this guy, because it could easily have happened to me, and my upbringing was probably a paradise compared to his. Especially in the case of juveniles, we (as a society) should be understanding of minor indiscretions, and look to guide kids onto a better path. Thankfully the German justice system seemed to get that.

> Nice black-and-white view of humanity I don't have a black and white view, I just don't buy "I was bored and clever" as a justification for breaking the law.

> I don't have a black and white view, I just don't buy "I was bored and clever" as a justification for breaking the law.

What is "the law", for who and by whom they are created for?

We need to first realize that there are no such a thing as "The law", and the limits of right and wrong are pretty shady if you think we live in a world that is multicultural and multi-subjective with several different realities and values, all of them valid in their own context..

For me "The law" here, which we supposed that are controlled by the state in our own interests, are actually serving corporate interests.. the same ones the US(at least the people) now are fighting against in cases like the net neutrality..

Whatever "The Law" is, it must serve their own people, and care if the execution of the law are being effective not only for the society in general, but also for the people being convicted by it..

In that context, we need to ask, why "the american society" represented by "the law" thought that kid was a risk to them, in a way he should be in prison for it..

The other aspect is , the culture and the companies created in american soil have to right to use the american law to put a german kid in jail

What values are you defending, when you put a kid the way they did in prison? what this gonna do with the kid? destroy his life? sure!! for what? this kid did marketing to HL2 for free!! Valve made millions of it!!

I think it didnt work for the society in general and less so for the kid.. really America scares me(as a outsider), sometimes the same way a country where i would be in doubt about my human rights being respected.. because of things like this...

I think this is not something to be proud of, but ashamed

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#76

Post by Bahamut »

psykotic wrote: post #72
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses. That's a legitimate programming job. Cool software rarely makes money. Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Then you stumble upon a IRC channel and a world of challenges opens in front of you. A book is far more challenging, because in an IRC channel y…

> Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Your thinking must be stuck in the last century. By the time I entered the game industry 13 years ago, salaries were already on par with the software industry at large. My first full-time position was in 2003 and paid $85,000/year. Based on the numbers I've seen, game programmers currently earn significantly more than web developers with an eq…

Are you sure about that? After 1 1/2 years in web development I am making significantly more than all of my game developer friends (even 2x some).

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#77

Post by psykotic »

Bahamut wrote: post #76
psykotic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Your thinking must be stuck in the last century. By the time I entered the game industry 13 years ago, salaries were already on par with the software industry at large. My first full-time position was in 2003 and paid $85,000/year. Based on the numbers I've seen, game programmers currently earn significantly more than web developers with an eq…

Are you sure about that? After 1 1/2 years in web development I am making significantly more than all of my game developer friends (even 2x some).

I'm going on personal knowledge and IGDA salary surveys. What part of the industry are your friends in? I should maybe have mentioned that the growing F2P, casual, mobile segment bears little resemblance, economically and otherwise, to what I would consider the traditional AAA game industry (which may eventually go the way of the dodo).

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#78

Post by tfigment »

paulhauggis wrote: post #61
garric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not saying that we shouldn't. But the U.S. is overwhelmingly focused on punishment, retribution, and incapacitation rather than rehabilitation. Essentially victim blaming, if you want to look at it like that. Opinion: It's going to take system-wide reform to accomplish anything meaningful.

so..a person that murders an innocent person is now a victim? some people are past the point of rehabilitation and should be in prison.

As harsh as this sounds, I agree. My brother is my personal example. He had 4-5 chances at rehabilitation. First it was small stuff like pawning my mom's jewelry then it was breaking and entering to the neighbors or my dad's truck or whatever as I've not heard all of the charges. The system gave him several breaks and it would last 6 months (or less) before he was at it again each time worse than the last. I am only grateful that he is in for the next 20 years so he cannot be even worse. Also as a juvenile the book was not thrown at him and was always released back to custody of my father who was very welcoming and tried his best but some people are beyond hope.

The only good thing that came from him was my nieces and even they didn't really turn out that great due to probably a twisted childhood and weird relation with dad.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#79

Post by sillysaurus3 »

psykotic wrote: post #72
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people live in small towns where the cool programming positions are adapting invoice management software for small businesses. That's a legitimate programming job. Cool software rarely makes money. Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Then you stumble upon a IRC channel and a world of challenges opens in front of you. A book is far more challenging, because in an IRC channel y…

> Cool software that makes money (game development) doesn't pay very much. Your thinking must be stuck in the last century. By the time I entered the game industry 13 years ago, salaries were already on par with the software industry at large. My first full-time position was in 2003 and paid $85,000/year. Based on the numbers I've seen, game programmers currently earn significantly more than web developers with an eq…

What are your thoughts on this alternate hypothesis? Rather than the whole gamedev industry being on par, perhaps only RAD's salaries have been.

I know your personal network is extremely large. If you have a lot of knowledge about the topic of gamedev salaries, I'd love to hear more. Since talking about salaries with colleagues is typically verboten, I'm curious how you collected your salary datapoints and what your sample size is.

There's a lot of anecdotal evidence of studios underpaying interns and programmers who are straight out of college, and regularly working people 60 or 80 hours a week. The anecdotal evidence fits my own personal experience, but perhaps my experience isn't representative of the whole industry; maybe I was just unlucky with my first couple studios.

Re: The boy who stole Half Life 2 source code (2011)

#80

Post by rasz_pl »

benihana wrote: post #57

"Have you any idea how lucky you are that we got to you before you got on that plane?" The difference in the way he was treated by police and the justice system (and how different it is than what we've come to expect in America) is what struck me the most about this story.

You mean the difference between justice system and revenge system.
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