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Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

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Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#71

Post by zanny »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #64
clarry wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing is at worst a victimless crime. At best.. well I don't know about best but I'd say something about living in the future where we have the technological means to give people anything they need or want. That if something is wealth. And progress. Thievery is an inappropriate description of making copies.

I'm not making any judgement on whether it should be legal/illegal etc. but I think saying it's a victimless crime at worst is potentially incorrect. In the worst case, it's absolutely possible that you share something with someone, A, which A would have bought and then they don't buy it. In the worst case they don't in the future buy anything from the author/creator etc. In the worst case I'd consider that author/cr…

It is not much of a market argument to say "there is this legal framework to artificially restrict information transfer, and if people don't obey it someone might not make revenue from nothing".

Most of the IP abolitionists (myself included) would just argue you should be doing free market information creation, and charging for scarce resources and not erecting some artificial framework mess to destroy a potentially enlightening capability of the information age. If you want to make a movie, seek funding to make the movie. If you want to write software, seek those who want software and ask them to give you money to make it, etc.

That is really inevitably the only way this ends, because IP is incompatible with the modern forms information can take. The ease, rate, and speed of transfer marginal expenses have collapsed to zero, so treating it as a scarce good is only systemically harming society with artificial scarcity.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#72

Post by Zigurd »

mpyne wrote: post #69
Zigurd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> supporting theivery on a massive scale? That depends on your attitude. Only a very small minority of content creators make a living from that activity. Some people are always going to be cheapskates of varying degrees. Unless they are actually manufacturing and selling counterfeit copies of my books, in my view it doesn't rise to the level of a tort, much less a crime. Google indexes downloads of my books. What con…

How would your comments apply to the use case of distributing GPL software derivatives instead of digital movies?

Wut?

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#73

Post by mindslight »

throwawaykf05 wrote: post #63
mindslight wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you examine the topic at a level beyond "it's theft", you may conclude that imaginary property is unsustainable in a world with private communications, decide privacy is the more worthy goal, and view those corrupting justice to preserve dying business models as the crooks.

> ... decide privacy is the more worthy goal... Essentially you are saying, My information is mine and should be under my control because privacy. But your information is "imaginary property" and anyone should be able to take it whenever they wish, because dying business models corruption crooks. Hilarious!

Actually no, what I'm saying is that what I choose to say to a friend should not be subject to a third party that demands to listen in. If my friend betrays my trust and shares the contents of that communication, then I can't do much about that.

You're right that I've described a tradeoff and simply assumed the case is closed - I mean, where does this right to privacy come from even? And to me, the answer that settles that question is physics - as long as one-way functions exist, then so does encryption (and it's generally believed that one-way functions exist). So preventing this privacy means restricting general communication, and we all know how that works out.

(PS. It's easier to have an honest debate when you don't knock down straw men with dismissive snide marks like 'Hilarious!'. You might even end up understanding a different point of view - and don't worry, that does not mean you need to agree with it.)

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#74

Post by Tombone5 »

zanny wrote: post #68
sergiosgc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Portugal. They may extend to 25 by accumulation, but other than that, the limit is absolute. You may conclude that someone is insane and force them to be institutionalized, but that is not prison, and the decision is not ever final.

I don't think I'd be really comfortable with convicted serial murderers walking around. Hell, any murderer. Manslaughter can be a mistake or an accident, but if you intentionally aggressively killed someone I'd rather not be walking past you on a street or participating with you in an open market... I don't believe in the death penalty, but I also believe an essential function of prison is to remove the irredeemable…

Typically the observation is made that if you are a serial murderer you are not really to be considered sane and into closed treatment you go, not coming out until you are sane again which I guess is not ever if the crime is really gruesome.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#75

Post by Zigurd »

jakejake wrote: post #62
waynecochran wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be a troll, but aren't these people essentially supporting theivery on a massive scale? I've never understood why so much of the Internet community thinks downloading software and/or movies that is meant to be paid for is ok.

I have my own feelings about it which that it is not really theft, but perhaps it is worth considering that the work of musicians and artists is devalued. I hear a lot of rationalization about how the artists don't get any money anyway, but I personally think that is a separate issue from sharing music. It's an interesting question, especially when you mention software. Because here on HN and other forums I get the i…

This is just a mishmash of sentiments. Calling out a ripoff site design as unethical is very different that siccing the police on the people who made a torrent index. Start complaining about hypocrisy when someone goes to prison fro a GPL violation.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#76

Post by Tombone5 »

zanny wrote: post #68
sergiosgc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Portugal. They may extend to 25 by accumulation, but other than that, the limit is absolute. You may conclude that someone is insane and force them to be institutionalized, but that is not prison, and the decision is not ever final.

I don't think I'd be really comfortable with convicted serial murderers walking around. Hell, any murderer. Manslaughter can be a mistake or an accident, but if you intentionally aggressively killed someone I'd rather not be walking past you on a street or participating with you in an open market... I don't believe in the death penalty, but I also believe an essential function of prison is to remove the irredeemable…

Also, in regards to "any murderer", I belive that there really isn't much beyond the perspective of those asked that separate (some) terrorists from soldiers from murderers...

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#77

Post by serf »

zanny wrote: post #68
sergiosgc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Portugal. They may extend to 25 by accumulation, but other than that, the limit is absolute. You may conclude that someone is insane and force them to be institutionalized, but that is not prison, and the decision is not ever final.

I don't think I'd be really comfortable with convicted serial murderers walking around. Hell, any murderer. Manslaughter can be a mistake or an accident, but if you intentionally aggressively killed someone I'd rather not be walking past you on a street or participating with you in an open market... I don't believe in the death penalty, but I also believe an essential function of prison is to remove the irredeemable…

What if the person committed that crime while under the influence of a prior mental illness that he or she has since sought help in correcting, and now recognizes their previous intent/action as criminal? What if the murder was due to a drug addiction that lead to mental illness, which has since been corrected?

It's my opinion that a society cannot simultaneously hope to 'cure mental illness', while also simultaneously locking up people who do the same things as the mentally ill without them ever having any hope of rehabilitation (life imprisonment). I have never felt as if the judiciary system should be an extension of personal vengeance; to take two people out of the active society as a murder/life imprisonment does seems more unhealthy for the society in the long run than if the person in prison had a realistic chance at a productive life through means of rehabilitation.

The placement of blame is just all wrong. I wouldn't feel bad as a psychologist releasing a would-be-future-murderer, because as a psychologist I would understand that it was my job to assess the chances rather than make the person. Of course they know there is a chance of 'relapse', because even a sane person has the outlying chance to snap and become psychotic under the right conditions. I am sure that the psychologist would be saddened at the relapse of his patient and at whatever damage was caused by the patient, but I would surely hope that the psychologist would not feel personally responsible for the actions of their patients.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#78

Post by Tombone5 »

oliwary wrote: post #42
ArcticCelt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can he just fill for bankruptcy to clear the damages?

Not bankruptcy, but "skuldsanering", which resembles "debt relief order" in English. It is a system for heavily indebted people to free themselves of their debt after living on a minimum for five years. It also includes damages due to crimes. [1] It is pretty rare however (5357 in 2013)[2]. There are two requirements: The person has to be indebted enough to not be able to pay off the debt in the foreseeable future, a…

From my reading of the fastställda tingsrättsdomen I note that they mention this excpetion being granted on a case by case basis, and considering Sunde is not a reformed alcoholic with a debth from a accident caused by his addiction it seems unlikely the case you refer to proves more than the existence of the exception.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#79

Post by XorNot »

zz1 wrote: post #55
tptacek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One possible stab towards a response is to observe that the cost for most popular sites is dominated by headcount costs, and TPB didn't have a large headcount.

They also had to buy new servers a few times.

That's still 10-20k tops.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#80

Post by funkyy »

anaphor wrote: post #4
ColinWright wrote: post #3

From Google translate ... Peter Sunde arrested in Skåne One of the brains behind the file sharing site The Pirate Bay has been arrested. Peter Sunde, 35, was arrested today in a raid in southern Sweden. - He has been on the run since 2012 , says Carolina Ekéus , press contact at NCIS . Rikskriminalen state that Peter Sunde has been wanted by Interpol and that he is now arrested. - He was arrested for him to serve a p…

"Together sentenced Pirate Bay founders in addition to prison to pay damages of around 46 million." Yeah, that's never going to happen. The prosecutor in their case came up with some fantastical amount of money TPB is supposed to have made, but it's complete nonsense (see the documentary TPB: AFK for details).

I think you need to do your research. Those guys are pretty packed. Their DC alone is money making like crazy. I know few folks that actually used their hosting services ~2 years ago - their pricing is among highest in industry. Also they have dozens of small projects running. TPB is running ads etc - what would be cost of running, 10 dedicated servers? And what would be the income? Around few hundred thousands?
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