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Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

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Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#71

Post by Tehnix »

venus wrote: post #69

I wish this wasn't the case, but as a man, there is no way I am getting involved in a fight between two strange women . No way. There is no upside for me and unlimited downside, in fact that downside is virtually guaranteed. This is the way things are in 2014.

I have friend that once intervened between two drunk women fighting on the bus. What he got out of it was that both turned on him, and threw stuff at him. Nobody else on the bus turned to help him, but he managed to get the women off the bus though (after they attacked him). As a man stepping into a fight between women, you have limited options when things go wrong.

The common rule is that men don't hit women, so if they start attacking you (which, hypocritically is perfectly okay), you can only hope to defend yourself. Was it a man though, you could fight back, but that still means you've just put yourself in danger by trying to help.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#72

Post by 300bps »

venus wrote: post #69

I wish this wasn't the case, but as a man, there is no way I am getting involved in a fight between two strange women . No way. There is no upside for me and unlimited downside, in fact that downside is virtually guaranteed. This is the way things are in 2014.

The one difference in the story though is that a guy that knew the victim realized what was going on, walked with her a couple steps and then left her on her own.

I can somewhat understand not getting involved with strangers - you don't know if the apparent victim is actually the instigator or even if the two are pulling a scam together. But if I even peripherally knew a woman and she told me she was being robbed at knifepoint, I would hope I wouldn't leave her to her fate like this guy did.

I would at least take my own dummy wallet out and give it to the mugger in exchange for leaving everyone alone. It has about $20 and a bunch of used up American Express gift cards in it.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#73

Post by [deleted] »

Tehnix wrote: post #71
venus wrote: post #69

I wish this wasn't the case, but as a man, there is no way I am getting involved in a fight between two strange women . No way. There is no upside for me and unlimited downside, in fact that downside is virtually guaranteed. This is the way things are in 2014.

I have friend that once intervened between two drunk women fighting on the bus. What he got out of it was that both turned on him, and threw stuff at him. Nobody else on the bus turned to help him, but he managed to get the women off the bus though (after they attacked him). As a man stepping into a fight between women, you have limited options when things go wrong. The common rule is that men don't hit women, so if…

[deleted]

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#74

Post by madaxe_again »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #26
m0nty wrote: post #12

A few weeks ago, I was pedalling to work in the rain when I saw something which briefly made me well up with rage: a car parked diagonally across the cycle lane, driver clearly on the phone - a new level of "f*ck you" from a motorist to cyclists. But then I saw the skid-marks leading across the verge from the road, and I realised this was a bit more serious. I stopped and tapped on the window. She was very distraught…

>> "As I remounted my bike and rode away, it occurred to me that she didn't at any point thank me..." >> "There's not much to be gained from interacting with strangers..." Good on you for stopping to help but why do you feel like you should have to gain something by helping someone else? The woman you helped was still probably quite shocked and dealing with police to thank you and it's highly likely that in such a si…

There quite definitely is something to be gained by helping strangers.

1) Your humanity and self-respect. It feels damnably good to know you've done something to help someone who needed it.

2) Serendipity. Maybe, just maybe, that person that you reach out to will somehow bless your life. Maybe they'll bite you. It's all experience, and a yarn to tell at the least.

I don't think that it's that people expect something in return, it's that society has increasingly pushed in the direction of passive consumption, of observation, of spectacle, and the actions of others on a flickering screen providing the ersatz satisfaction of actual action.

I witness this variety of thing all too frequently - someone's in trouble, and a crowd stands, and watches, much as they would the same events on television.

I can at least live in good conscience that I always step in to help, consequences be damned - and yes, I've had my share of negative consequences - lawsuit from a girl who was being beaten senseless by her "man", for intervening and causing her to scrape her knee (never mind the blood gushing from her face by the time I showed up) - lawsuit from a guy who had an epileptic fit, and I phoned for an ambulance, resulting in him being arrested on an outstanding warrant - and arrest and a broken nose for breaking up a bar-fight. Plenty else too, but those were the major ones.

Such is life, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#75

Post by ThePhysicist »

simoncion wrote: post #23
ThePhysicist wrote: post #13

Bystander effect aside, this is really shocking if it's true. I once got robbed in broad daylight at a bus station in La Paz (Bolivia), with dozens of people standing nearby and watching everything happen, but then again this was in a developing country. I think part of the explanation is that such situations occur pretty rarely in the developed world, so people do not know what's the appropriate reaction: Fight back…

USian here. Where do you live that you're required to take a first-aid class before you get your driver's license? That sounds like a freaking fantastic idea!

Germany, where else ;) I think it's actually required in most of the European Union. They mostly teach you how to do cardiac massage and mouth-to-mouth. This makes a lot of sense since it usually takes between 5-10 minutes for the paramedics to arrive on scene, which is simply too long for someone who doesn't breathe.

The thing that I remember most from the course was this: "Don't be afraid to perform cardiac massage on someone that doesn't breathe even if you might hurt him (e.g. by breaking some of his bones), after all if you do nothing he's already as good as dead.".

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#76

Post by [deleted] »

simoncion wrote: post #23
ThePhysicist wrote: post #13

Bystander effect aside, this is really shocking if it's true. I once got robbed in broad daylight at a bus station in La Paz (Bolivia), with dozens of people standing nearby and watching everything happen, but then again this was in a developing country. I think part of the explanation is that such situations occur pretty rarely in the developed world, so people do not know what's the appropriate reaction: Fight back…

USian here. Where do you live that you're required to take a first-aid class before you get your driver's license? That sounds like a freaking fantastic idea!

[deleted]

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#77

Post by toyg »

justjimmy wrote: post #11

Wow, this piece cuts close to home. I currently live in Taiwan and just yesterday there was a subway stabbing - a 20s male started stabbing people on the subway. Naturally, reactions was slow as most people was playing their phones or getting some shut eye. He managed to kill 4 people, get off the subway and intimidate more people, before finally brought down by a 62 elder man. Everyone can be armchair quarterbacks,…

I think the main difference is that the overall level of violence in society has gone down so much that people simply don't know how to react anymore. In the past, violence was much more present in everyday life: wars were more common, criminal activity was more common, law enforcement was lax or even non-existent, so people had to literally fight on the streets day by day just to survive. Women wouldn't go out alone even in daylight, most men were supposed to carry some sort of weapon as soon as they stepped out of walled towns (and often even while inside) and so on. After WWII, there were so many veterans around that you wouldn't dare starting sh*t for fear that somebody would kick your ass in 5 minutes.

Nowadays, people like me wouldn't know the first thing about hitting someone or defending themselves. My childhood home was in what we'd consider "a bad area" of a Southern European city (mafia and all that) but even there it took very little care to stay out of trouble. I don't think I've ever been in a physical confrontation with anyone after my 18th birthday; I wouldn't know how to use a knife or a gun, nor how to protect myself from it. Law enforcement and cultural pressure are now so efficient that they can usually limit violent activity to specific areas, so as long as I stay away from those, I'm very likely to be safe. (Every city has different attitudes and problems, of course, but that's more or less true for most of them)

If a random stranger started knifing people in my subway carriage, I'd probably freeze too - I'm a family man, not a goddamn soldier or street-fighter. Same for witnessing something like what OP describes.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#78

Post by stuaxo »

afarrell wrote: post #64

I hope I would have kicked the woman in the head or wrestled her to the ground. As a male, I suspect I wouldn't have. I could have just called the police, but that doesn't really help in an immediate situation of one person trying to stab someone. So this situation calls for either: 1) Subduing the attacker by pinning them. 2) Doing enough damage to the attacker that they can't move. If they are on top of the victim,…

Arg, reading that and the original article makes for a depressing start to the afternoon !

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#80

Post by wvh »

As someone who has been attacked and/or robbed several times in cities like Brussels, two things I'm sad to have learned:

1) Your reality changes. At any point, in every street, someone/some gang can step up and change your situation to something vastly different than the reality the other people around you are in at that moment.

2) Nobody cares. People don't want to get involved. They are not aware of the situation, or even when they are, they are not in it themselves. As a woman you might have the luck of a knight in shiny armour nearby who feels obliged to step up and help, but as a fit male, all bets are off. Few want to get between "men fighting" – to them you are a perpetrator, not a victim.

The loneliness and absurdity of such situations are hard to get over. Years later I'm still more aware of my environment whenever I'm out, and I always check for exits and whom not to turn my back to. It has also made me more likely to reach out and help others in such situations, partly because I can relate, and partly because I'm more aware that something doesn't feel quite right.

You must learn to accept that if you have belongings, you might lose them. Or alternatively, be willing to pointlessly fight like hell with a random stranger for little or no benefit. The second option might cost a hell of a lot more overall, even when you "win".

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