I can't help thinking that this seems a little bit unfair. While there's a nominal out for "exceptional cases", it seems to me that a company like Stripe deserves a much higher valuation than a company like Tarsnap... not to mention the difference between companies which are joining YC after they're already established and companies which are merely a twinkle in their founders' eyes. What exactly is the problem being…
very few people do YC primarily for the money (though, as i said in the post, more money for less equity is definitely better than the opposite!), and whether a company is brand new or 6 months old, we think we can increase their valuation by more than 7%.
The New Deal
71–80 of 194 posts
Re: The New Deal
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they valued different companies differently, then it sends a certain kind of signal. The ones with the better valuation would end up getting a disproportionate amount of follow-on funding. Now, that may be a good thing, but it also might be a bad thing. At a certain point, this is a numbers game, and you want the market to sort things out, not YC management.
Didn't Altman just say that they sometimes do value companies differently? What was bad about the signaling problem with YCVC was that it probably often had nothing whatsoever to do with the value of the company, and was instead just an artifact of circumstance. But other investors might not be savvy enough (or just might not have the time to think through it) to understand that that was all that was happening.
It seems like they're planning to significantly decrease that variation. Almost all companies will give 7%, and a few exceptional cases might give less. This move eliminates all signaling risks (7% is now standard, so it's not a mark against companies, and any deviation is likely upwards).
Re: The New Deal
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But $120k is just not a lot of money. The real value of YC is the signal that getting accepted sends to other seed investors. This idea (first quoted sentence) needs to die. It is toxic to the early-stage ecosystem. Any amount of money is a ton of money. Period. You can ignore the hustling that Jobs or Zuckerberg did for literally a couple of thousand dollars - read Zuckerberg's contracts at the time he was at Harv…
Sorry, I just don't agree. 120k barely makes expenses for 1 FTE. Not only that, but it's also an amount of money that a strong freelancer can generate on top of living expenses in a particularly well-utilized year.
But that $100K? That was a ton of money.
Basically, you are wrong that it was not a ton of money, your anchors and comparisons are toxic and misleading, and if he had not cut that check then Larry and Sergey would not have created Google. That is what actual reality shows us.
You simply do an incredible disservice to all early-stage startups by talking in these terms.
I gave you several actual examples of far less than $120K being a ton of money in an early-stage context. As little as $5000 being a ton of money. I also specifically stated that if, say, $20K, weren't a lot of money, then it would make no difference empirically if YCombinator did not actually pay that cash. And YC companies wouldn't have either relied on or even actually spent that cash. But it does make a difference, and they did.
As I specifically point out: your FTE expenses are completely irrelevant, and even part (less than 100%) of the after-tax portion of a single FTE salary is a ton of money. (In an early-stage context.)
To imply otherwise does a huge disservice to all first-time, early-stage founders everywhere. The very idea is toxic and needs to die.
[1] The meaning of anchor I use is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring
[2] Your figures both about (1) the cost to the company of a fully loaded FTE senior engineer and (2) the amount that a good freelancer can generate above living expenses in a year, are irrelevant and do not need to be argued. I will grant both as irrelevant to the discussion.
Re: The New Deal
#74Re: The New Deal
#75So, do you provide personal expense guidance to the founders?
How can I get, without joining YC, just this portion of the program ;)
Re: The New Deal
#76I'm more excited about the effect this will have in general than the effect it will have on YC companies. The difference for a YC company is that they don't have to give up an extra percentage as they raise their seed round to cover the convertible note/SAFE that they got from YCVC. With no discount, if a YC company raised at a $10M valuation that 80,000 would be worth .8% of the company - not enough to really move t…
POEM alert :affect...think you want effect :)
Re: The New Deal
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, I just don't agree. 120k barely makes expenses for 1 FTE. Not only that, but it's also an amount of money that a strong freelancer can generate on top of living expenses in a particularly well-utilized year.
You're simply empirically wrong [about the 'amount' of money that represents, whether it is large enough to make a substantial difference], and your anchors[1] are not only irrelevant and misleading in an early-stage context, but extremely toxic.[2] What was Google's first check in the amount of? $100K. It was a ton of money. As Wikipedia points out, "The first funding for Google as a company was secured in August 19…
* 120k will barely pay the fully loaded cost of a single engineer
* A good freelancer can generate 120k above living expenses in a year
Your response was "the fully loaded cost of an engineer is irrelevant". That's a weird argument, given that the cost of engineers dominates the expenses of early-stage startups.
Re: The New Deal
#78I'm more excited about the effect this will have in general than the effect it will have on YC companies. The difference for a YC company is that they don't have to give up an extra percentage as they raise their seed round to cover the convertible note/SAFE that they got from YCVC. With no discount, if a YC company raised at a $10M valuation that 80,000 would be worth .8% of the company - not enough to really move t…
Re: The New Deal
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
They obviously can, the same way that they can offset the dollars by paying for their childrens' living expenses. But $120k is just not a lot of money. The real value of YC is the signal that getting accepted sends to other seed investors.
> But $120k is just not a lot of money. The real value of YC is the signal that getting accepted sends to other seed investors. This idea (first quoted sentence) needs to die. It is toxic to the early-stage ecosystem. Any amount of money is a ton of money. Period. You can ignore the hustling that Jobs or Zuckerberg did for literally a couple of thousand dollars - read Zuckerberg's contracts at the time he was at Harv…
And, let's be honest, $120k really isn't a lot of money. Sure, it might be more than my net worth right now—but as an engineer I could easily save up that amount in less than 2 years.
Re: The New Deal
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But $120k is just not a lot of money. The real value of YC is the signal that getting accepted sends to other seed investors. This idea (first quoted sentence) needs to die. It is toxic to the early-stage ecosystem. Any amount of money is a ton of money. Period. You can ignore the hustling that Jobs or Zuckerberg did for literally a couple of thousand dollars - read Zuckerberg's contracts at the time he was at Harv…
Sorry, I just don't agree. 120k barely makes expenses for 1 FTE. Not only that, but it's also an amount of money that a strong freelancer can generate on top of living expenses in a particularly well-utilized year.
You don't have to give away anything. be an entrepreneur.