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Announcing .NET Native Preview

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Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#71

Post by coldpie »

keithwarren wrote: post #31

It seems the comments area here is full of lots of questions and few answers. Let me try to clear some things up. Lets start with how it currently works... When you create an application or website in C#,F#,VB.NET or any other .NET language you are not really 'compiling' it per se to native code, you are compiling it to an intermediate language called IL - very much like Java byte code. When your application or websi…

Thank you for writing this comment.

> Can I build simple console apps with this and deploy to machines without the .NET runtime?

> No

Darn. I was hopeful that this would help us run .NET applications in Wine by eliminating the need for the full VM, but it appears not.

> Besides, unless you have some Windows 98 machines sitting around nearly every PC has the .NET runtime.

Well, or a Unix machine trying to run Windows apps in Wine. We are (well, one single dev is, really) still trying to get Mono to work for us, but it's a very long road to get the missing APIs and VM features in place.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#73

Post by keithwarren »

Patient0 wrote: post #65
keithwarren wrote: post #31

It seems the comments area here is full of lots of questions and few answers. Let me try to clear some things up. Lets start with how it currently works... When you create an application or website in C#,F#,VB.NET or any other .NET language you are not really 'compiling' it per se to native code, you are compiling it to an intermediate language called IL - very much like Java byte code. When your application or websi…

How good/reliable is Mono on Linux now? If I knew for sure that people are actually using Mono on Linux robustly and with good performance I would ditch the JVM - as a language/runtime .Net is so much better...

How good is Mono - Unity3D is based on it and I have not heard anyone complain that the thousands of games built with it (including some of the most popular ever on iOS and Android) are having performance issues because of the underlying architecture.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#74

Post by rbanffy »

It's interesting. It's more like a "static JIT" (BIT?) that does not account for the different data characteristics the instructions will process (which is something a JIT would/should do because it alters the actual program flow), but I find the "fast from the start" idea very compelling. I wonder how long will it take to Oracle (or the OpenJDK folks) to react to it.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#75

Post by virtualwhys »

Patient0 wrote: post #65
keithwarren wrote: post #31

It seems the comments area here is full of lots of questions and few answers. Let me try to clear some things up. Lets start with how it currently works... When you create an application or website in C#,F#,VB.NET or any other .NET language you are not really 'compiling' it per se to native code, you are compiling it to an intermediate language called IL - very much like Java byte code. When your application or websi…

How good/reliable is Mono on Linux now? If I knew for sure that people are actually using Mono on Linux robustly and with good performance I would ditch the JVM - as a language/runtime .Net is so much better...

> as a language/runtime .Net is so much better...

.NET is not a language, presumably you're referring to C# vs. Java? C# may have the upper hand over Java currently, but Java 8 is a very good sign from Oracle that they're finally willing to push the language forward, which down the road may not necessarily mean C# > Java.

As for .NET being so much better than the JVM, that's not a factual statement ;-) Certainly the JVM, with Clojure, Scala, Kotlin, Ceylon, Groovy, JRuby, etc. running on it, has proven the JVM to be a pretty awesome environment for emerging languages, while the CLR has proven to, not surprisngly, be an awesome environment for Microsoft backed projects.

If you're tied to Linux and Mono isn't a viable solution, why not try one of the above Java alternates?? JVM is a kickass dev environment these days if you're able to break away from Java...

FWIW, last time I tried Mono (a couple of years ago) it was quite impressive, particularly the IDE, incredibly responsive. The biggest drawback was the feature lag between latest and greatest from .NET side of the fence.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#76

Post by apardoe-MSFT »

thomasz wrote: post #53
apardoe-MSFT wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@rajeevk, we could compile from MSIL and not tell the developer. But you probably appreciate the chance to test out the app on your own the way your user will run it. After all, you'll want to profile it or maybe find that last on-device, optimized-only bug...

What about stuff like Il.Emit and Expression .Compile

Reflection.Emit isn't allowed in the Windows Store profile so we haven't handled it in this go-around. Expression compile is supported and handled properly.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#77

Post by pjmlp »

ksec wrote: post #54

There was GCJ that used to do this for Java. Sadly it has been discontinued. It is interesting how every old is new again, we went from AOT to JIT and Back to AOT again.

> There was GCJ that used to do this for Java. Sadly it has been discontinued.

There are lots of other AOT compilers for Java available.

> It is interesting how every old is new again, we went from AOT to JIT and Back to AOT again.

Yep, we already went through this as everyone founded out P-Code wasn't fast enough. Then Anders Hejlsberg created Turbo Pascal.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#78

Post by graycat »

keithwarren wrote: post #40
graycat wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I read the OP, I was tempted to scream about bad writing due to lack of context, undefined terminology, and general lack of explanation, not nearly the first time I was tempted to scream at Microsoft's technical writing abilities. Your post provided essentially everything that was missing. But, what the heck is a "Windows store app"? What the heck is "jitter"?

Windows Store Apps are what was once called 'Metro' apps and now termed 'Modern' apps. They are essentially Microsoft's version of apps from iOS app store or Google Play store but focused on Windows 8 tablet and desktops (and as of today, the same apps you develop for these environments can also work on Windows Phone and XBOX One) In the past if you were writing a client side or 'desktop' app for Windows you used C++…

Thanks.

Re: Announcing .NET Native Preview

#79

Post by felixgallo »

keithwarren wrote: post #73
Patient0 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good/reliable is Mono on Linux now? If I knew for sure that people are actually using Mono on Linux robustly and with good performance I would ditch the JVM - as a language/runtime .Net is so much better...

How good is Mono - Unity3D is based on it and I have not heard anyone complain that the thousands of games built with it (including some of the most popular ever on iOS and Android) are having performance issues because of the underlying architecture.

Relative to the JVM, Mono on Linux is slow as heck.
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