I've always found it bizarre that people would willing give hundreds (if not, thousands) of dollars to fund a business venture for some paltry token of appreciation while the founders (and investors) receive all of the financial rewards. (The "Veronica Mars" movie comes to mind.) Also, I find it deeply upsetting that I am be allowed to give my life savings to a startup founded by a friend or family member, but I can'…
Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
71–80 of 121 posts
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#721. Making a donation to a company. [1]
2. Preordering something that hasn't been built yet.
Doing 1 is silly, since you don't really get anything in return. "But it makes it more likely that this thing I want will happen!" In some tiny marginal way, sure, but mostly it's going to happen because other people donate (or fails to happen because they don't). Don't be the fool who tries to personally take on the collective action problem. And stop trying to make other people rich out of the goodness of your heart.
Of course, as the WSJ fails to make clear, most of Oculus's Kickstarter money wasn't straight-up donations; it was preorders of the Rift. That's obviously not a donation, but it's not a good idea either. As the buyer, you bear the risk that it never ships at all. "But I'm compensated with a discount!" Essentially, you're making an investment in which your returns come in the form of future discounts on a product. Forget that you like the Oculus Rift for a second; is this a wise investment structure? If someone set up a VC company that did that instead of buying parts of companies, would you think that was smart? Did you do any kind of analysis that suggests this is actually works out to be a good investment? Do the potential returns even justify that analysis? Do you think of other consumer products this way, or only shiny electronic things?
Or to think about it a different way: imagine if someone set up a store that worked like this: you take your item to the counter, where they don't actually let you buy the item. Instead what you can do is pay the price minus n% and then they roll this big roulette to decide whether you get the product (m% success rate). If you win you get to keep the product and if you lose it goes back on the shelf and they keep your money. To spice things up, they don't tell you what n and m are either, just the price to play and whether you get the item. Now, it's possible--though unknown--that m and n work out that you're EV positive here. But would you really shop at that store? Especially when there's another store next door that just sells you the same stuff at a known price (i.e. just buy the Rift when it comes out).
The fact of the matter is that you're aren't pre-buying the Rift on a rational basis. You've been convinced by clever marketing to shoulder risk for a company because it seems cool and feels good. Total sucker move. That probably explains why it tastes bitter when the company whose capital requirements you fronted rolls that into a $2 billion dollar acquisition.
[1] Maybe it's not a company. Maybe it's a cause you support like improving CoffeeScript or something. For those cases, I withdraw my objections.
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand your reasoning – the point of selling equity is to have more money available for immediate use. If they had followed this path, they might have raised even more capital.
$300 doesn't get you a headset AND equity. You might take $300 from person A to manufacture a headset to sell to person B for $300. But person A doesn't get both.
Effectively, a project would say "Hey! Give us $300 dollars. We might get you this product we're trying to build, but we also might fail at delivering. Here's some equity too, to help compensate for your risk."
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason for the accredited-investor regulation was to prevent people from putting all of their wealth into risky investments they know nothing about and being left destitute. People on HN are pretty smart, but it's not representative of the entire population. People get scammed by ridiculously obvious scams. Do you really think they have the ability to invest in a start-up in an intelligent way?
I know it's a bit of a libertarian viewpoint but it is not the government's job to be my nanny. If I wish to throw all of my money down the toilet on some hopeless start-up I should be allowed to do so.
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason for the accredited-investor regulation was to prevent people from putting all of their wealth into risky investments they know nothing about and being left destitute. People on HN are pretty smart, but it's not representative of the entire population. People get scammed by ridiculously obvious scams. Do you really think they have the ability to invest in a start-up in an intelligent way?
Then why aren't there limits on lottery ticket purchases, or casino gambling, or making highly-leveraged real-estate purchases, or buying any number of other investments (including public stocks and options) that can send any initial amount of money to zero, quite rapidly? It's an archaic set of rules, from a dumber era, and totally out-of-sync with what people are capable of, and what real risks to "all of their wea…
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#76I'll just say it: Kickstarter is for suckers. When you give money to a project, you're doing one of two things: 1. Making a donation to a company. [1] 2. Preordering something that hasn't been built yet. Doing 1 is silly, since you don't really get anything in return. "But it makes it more likely that this thing I want will happen!" In some tiny marginal way, sure, but mostly it's going to happen because other people…
That's exactly what Kickstarter solves. My $10 probably wouldn't help much, but the $10 of thousands of backers will actually do something.
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
The real shame is not that the backers didn't a get a financial payout ('tho they should). The real shame is how Oculus' most passionate enthusiasts got burnt. They were in it for the shared vision but got a tough lesson in capitalism instead.
what about the product they bought? I don't expect financial payout from a McDonald's franchisee because I bought some hamburgers from them.
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
What utter nonsense. Larry and Sergey were shopping Google around and no one wanted to buy, Apple was acquired from within by their investors, FB, Yahoo, Amazon all took on a massive amount of VC to get off the ground. That is the cost of doing business and when companies like Sony begin to encroach on the space that you are pioneering, it might be in your best interest to get to market, and you need cash to do that.…
Wtf are you talking about? This was an acquisiton , by definition the CEO of the buying company has the final say. Taking VC money is completely different.
Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#79Re: Aug. 1, 2012: When Oculus Asked for Donations
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason for the accredited-investor regulation was to prevent people from putting all of their wealth into risky investments they know nothing about and being left destitute. People on HN are pretty smart, but it's not representative of the entire population. People get scammed by ridiculously obvious scams. Do you really think they have the ability to invest in a start-up in an intelligent way?
I know it's a bit of a libertarian viewpoint but it is not the government's job to be my nanny. If I wish to throw all of my money down the toilet on some hopeless start-up I should be allowed to do so.