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Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

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Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#71

Post by smirksirlot »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #22
famousactress wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, it wasn't "made right", nor is it "the end" and we damned sure need to keep "dwelling on it".

Prop 8 was ruled unconstitutional and same sex marriages have resumed in California. Is that not right? Is that not the end of it?

Not really. It is easy to sweep things under the rug when you're not one of those affected legally, financially, emotionally. I know of people who decided to leave their careers, their homes, and move to another country so that they could be with someone they love. Those decisions changed their lives and it isn't something that just goes away.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#72

Post by hkphooey »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #42
steve19 wrote: post #15

tolerance is a two way street. would it be OK for conservative muslims to protest a gay CEO? no. in a democracy and in a world with many differing points of view at some point you just have to tolerate each others beliefs, regardless of how much you oppose them, and just get along. edit: and now my words are being twisted. I never said being gay was a belief. what one person thinks of a proposed law is a belief. edit…

Being gay isn't a belief.

If it's not a choice or a belief, is it genetic?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#74

Post by javert »

redbad wrote: post #17
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #9

Meh. Prop 8 passed the people's vote with 7,001,084 Californians voting in favor of it and 6,401,482 voting against. Are we to start boycotting every company that employs one of those 7 million people? I'm glad it was made right in the end and I hope at least some of those 7 million people have changed their opinion... but I don't think we need to keep dwelling on it.

1. There is a difference between voting for something and funding it. 2. There is a difference between being employed by a company and being its CEO. 3. These differences are significant.

I strongly disagree with #1.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#75

Post by Xcelerate »

stbtrax wrote: post #60
xupybd wrote: post #49

I understand why people could get offended about this. But as I understand it most who oppose this have a religious reason to do so. Now religion is as deeply person and important to a person as is the right to marry. So where do we draw the line on what we allow others to think, believe or support? As a for instance my Aunty is vegan and is offended that I or any one else would ever eat meat. And I know eating meat…

I draw the line at if you can make a logical argument, there are many logical arguments for not eating meat. There are no convincing logical arguments for opposing gay marriage that don't involve bringing mystical wizardry into play.

Except you can't assume you're right and use that as the basis of an argument against someone who you thinks you're wrong. You'll get nowhere with that. It's the same thing your opponent does too.

It always bothers me when listening to (or reading) a debate and both sides say that the other side isn't being logical. Well, you can't both be logical and still be in contradiction with each other.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#76

Post by [deleted] »

mikeash wrote: post #58
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll happily defend the man's right to hold all sorts of inappropriate and unpopular opinions. Do we want the tech community to be some kind of PC witch hunt, where people who say or do unpopular things will be banned from employment? If that's the case, then that's wrong -- and it hurts the tech community at large for it to be that way. This is a witch hunt. It may be a witch hunt for good reasons, and for a cause I…

I believe they're protesting not his opinions, but his efforts to have his opinions turned into laws. It's one thing to be against gay marriage. It's quite another to spend one's own money on outlawing it.

[deleted]

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#77

Post by DanielBMarkham »

mikeash wrote: post #58
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll happily defend the man's right to hold all sorts of inappropriate and unpopular opinions. Do we want the tech community to be some kind of PC witch hunt, where people who say or do unpopular things will be banned from employment? If that's the case, then that's wrong -- and it hurts the tech community at large for it to be that way. This is a witch hunt. It may be a witch hunt for good reasons, and for a cause I…

I believe they're protesting not his opinions, but his efforts to have his opinions turned into laws. It's one thing to be against gay marriage. It's quite another to spend one's own money on outlawing it.

So let's play this through in an imaginary scenario.

Next year I decide I like my neighbor, who's running for governor in the American Nazi party. I write him a check for $500.

So now I can't work in the tech industry? Really? And this makes sense to folks?

So you're saying thinking is okay, but acting is not. So is there some list of things I can and can't do and expect to have a job? Or is it just made up off-the-cuff by anybody with an internet search and an axe to grind?

Do you realize how chilling this is? We're going to raise an entire generation of tech leadership who are acutely tuned never to do anything publicly that might indicate they have an opinion -- and are smart enough to hold all their real feelings inside, no matter how terrible. It's bad for those folks, it's bad for the industry, and it's bad for the rest of us. It's just bad all the way around.

We all have to vote the same way, give money to the same causes, say the same things -- or face collective group punishment. And this seems sane?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#78

Post by fennecfoxen »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #61
fennecfoxen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to Hacker News, bastion of intellectual freedom, where large number of people will now argue that you should be deprived of employment because you donated money to certain unpopular political campaigns. Next steps include: calling for the resignation of anyone who voted Republican in a recent election.

That is a fantastically creative straw man you just beat up there... Yes, because some people are boycotting a company because their founder voted to take away their civil rights, those people are bad. Nevermind the fact that the person they're criticizing not only voted for, but provided financial support for civil rights to be taken away. But yeah, this basically means people will call for all Republicans to quit t…

You seem to imply voting for a cause is okay, but donating $1000 to promote that cause crosses a line. I find this distinction curious. Where is the line? Is it the first penny donated? The first dollar? Dollar #999 of 1000? Does the relevancy of the donation last forever, or is it subject to time decay?

And maybe the CEO is more special than an ordinary employee, sure, but where do we draw the line on the person's job description? If a person who has donated to an unfavored group in the past is not an appropriate candidate for CEO anywhere anymore: Is he okay to be the CTO? COO? VP of Engineering? An engineering team lead? A project architect with technology leadership only?

And the cause: if donating to Prop 8 is bad, is donating to a politician who supported Prop 8 or legislation to similar effect bad? How about donating to the politician's party?

I don't see any great places to draw a clear line and say "Okay, if I keep this side of about a controversial issue, it will be recognized as legitimate political activity by all people on all sides, and my career will not be subject to boycotts in the future." I mean, sure, it's great that you draw the line somewhere less ridiculous, but not particularly comforting in the big picture of things.

Any just cause could land on the wrong side of popular opinion eventually - indeed, this cause was on the wrong side of popular opinion only a few decades ago. And this really isn't the kind of principle of political interaction that you can cheer on in a content-neutral way: I therefore contend that we shouldn't cheer it on in a content-specific way either.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#79

Post by hkphooey »

Camillo wrote: post #65

I'd like to urge everyone to consider whether it's a good idea to comment on this story. If you voice an opinion in support of Eich, obviously that's going to be a liability in the future. But voicing an opinion against him is also a liability - there is no telling how the zeitgeist might change ten or twenty years from now. I think it's best to voice no opinion at all - and I hope this comment is not misconstrued as…

I disagree.

People have died for the right to speak their minds so don't live in fear of what may or may not happen.

If you have an opinion, voice it. If somebody is going to discriminate against you because of your opinion, then they are the bigot.

Don't let political correctness silence you.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#80

Post by eknkc »

javert wrote: post #74
redbad wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. There is a difference between voting for something and funding it. 2. There is a difference between being employed by a company and being its CEO. 3. These differences are significant.

I strongly disagree with #1.

Money can buy a lot of votes.
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