So this thread is a good candidate for the "pending" feature (it has rapidly and predictably become toxic), yet it doesn't seem to be turned on here...
Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
71–80 of 258 posts
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#72This is definitely one of those moral fashions [1] that Paul Graham wrote about: "What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good. Dressing oddly gets you laughed at. Violating moral fashions can get you fired, ostracized, imprisoned, or even ki…
When his "moral stance" directly affects your own quality of life and standing as a US citizen then it's probably more than just fashion, hm?
Well no, he has the exact same rights as any other citizen to vote and donate for whatever laws he prefers.
It's inappropriate to do various things that hurt people around you; but it's perfectly fine to vote and support laws that directly affect quality of life of people in both directions (surprise - pretty much all laws/propositions do!).
It's exactly the same as boycotting a company because CEO belongs to a really opposite political party - USA doesn't have any really opposite parties; but the rest of the world has seen quite a lot of such partisanism, and it ends up just as ugly as any other bigotry.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> whatever Eich does in his time is irrelevant Of course it isn't. If he was backdooring JS crypto libraries for the NSA, or shooting orphans, or selling crack, that would be seriously inappropriate behaviour and he would lose his job for it. Many people might consider it inappropriate to be fighting against gay marriage - it's not just a political issue, it's a moral one.
Backdooring his employer's code would be directly related to his work, and illegal actions on his own time would make him unemployable if caught and convicted, because he'd go to prison. False equivalances, all.
Another comparable example: He donated 10,000 to the Nazi party.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#74This is definitely one of those moral fashions [1] that Paul Graham wrote about: "What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good. Dressing oddly gets you laughed at. Violating moral fashions can get you fired, ostracized, imprisoned, or even ki…
There are moral fashions. But this isn't one of them, because it's far from arbitrary. We aren't going to have some sort of sudden fashion back the other way, where people are suddenly against interracial marriage, or against black people voting, or against women voting. They also aren't shunning him for his views. They're shunning him for his actions . He tried to hurt them; it is not unreasonable of them to refuse…
Discrimination on the basis of political stance is bigotry. There is no two ways about this.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#75I understand where the authors are coming from. They're made that Eich supported a bill that denies their rights. However, what Eich does is his own, personal business. The writers, at least in my mind, are mixing business with their personal lives. I support gay marriage, but I think that this isn't too much more than needless outrage. When someone boycotts Google because Google supports gay marriage, a lot of us lo…
Exactly, we look at them and say "They're the immoral ones." ... now everybody's looking at the authors and saying "why are they mixing business with their personal lives".
Notice the difference: we are still defending the corporations from the protestors but now the reasons are a bit weird.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#76This is definitely one of those moral fashions [1] that Paul Graham wrote about: "What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good. Dressing oddly gets you laughed at. Violating moral fashions can get you fired, ostracized, imprisoned, or even ki…
"Society has shifted on this issue, such that the traditional is considered unacceptable to hold; you're ostracized with negative labels should you hold the unfashionable position..."
Couldn't you say the same thing about civil rights? Slavery? Colonization? At some point these ideas were considered 'OK' by society and then at some point they were considered 'Not OK'. Are these simply 'fashions' to you? I think PG's article is interesting and very relevant, but taking it and naming something a 'fashion' without studying it in the same depth as the article isn't pushing the argument forward at all.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#77Let me get this, if some one donates his own money to a totally legal cause should be fired?
This has a name, is called extortion, I would definitively boycott Firefox if they remove this person.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#78I don't know what it is about gay marriage that draws people in to this ridiculous witch hunt. I'm neutral on the issue because I feel it's complicated like every other polarizing topic, but to a lot of folks it's solid black-and-white, good-vs-evil. But the pro-gay-marriage crowd seems to go beyond that. To them, it's so black-and-white that one's not even allowed to hold the other view. These people don't even ackn…
Why would anyone "acknowledge the legitimacy" of beliefs that would e.g. prevent them from visiting their spouse on their deathbed? There's no middle ground here.
Also, it's worth trying not to use the term "witch hunt" to describe attacks on a group which has held an oppressive majority for hundreds of years and which is actively continuing to attempt to deny the rights of a minority. The analogy does not hold.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Backdooring his employer's code would be directly related to his work, and illegal actions on his own time would make him unemployable if caught and convicted, because he'd go to prison. False equivalances, all.
Another comparable example: He donated 10,000 to the Nazi party.
That would be a hell of an accomplishment, seeing as how the Nazi Party hasn't existed for more than half a century.
Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace
#80I understand where the authors are coming from. They're made that Eich supported a bill that denies their rights. However, what Eich does is his own, personal business. The writers, at least in my mind, are mixing business with their personal lives. I support gay marriage, but I think that this isn't too much more than needless outrage. When someone boycotts Google because Google supports gay marriage, a lot of us lo…
By trying to keep these guys from getting married, Eich made it personal.
As the court decisions have shown, keeping them from getting married was an unconstitutional imposition upon their civil rights. Whereas them deciding whom to do business with is totally legit. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.