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Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

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Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#71

It's nice that Schiller took the time to respond, but his letter doesn't make them look any better. They're still acting like useless self-appointed meddling busybodies with rigor mortis of the anal sphincter. I can accept them setting standards for hardware and software quality, but when they start imposing their standards on the flow of information, services (Google Voice) and ideas, they've lost me forever.

You won't be missed. There are far more potential customers who care about "protecting" their children from various kinds of content. They constitute a market that Apple wants to access, and the way to do that is to provide mechanisms for filtering information on their behalf.

If you're fundamentally opposed to doing business with companies that restrict the flow of information in order to access wider markets, you're going to have to stop using (among other things) Google, which censors itself in China.

Otherwise, you're going to have to accept that some people want their information filtered by a third-party.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#72
post #42

They essentially said "ohh, we don't mind the 'swear' words, just the really bad ones" Fuck that. It is exactly the same thing, but the lexicon has evolved.

How about commenting without cursing? If you can't comment about the Ninjawords Dictionary without cursing then your opinion on Parental Controls is inherently flawed. The Parental Controls aren't there for you. They are there for me. I don't want to fill my headspace with negativity.

Dude, parental controls are there for keeping words away from children. You are not the target audience, even if you like them.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#73
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think that where he meant 'extremely vulgar language', he mistakenly reached for a term that has racial connotations.

How is that a mistake? Should he screen every word that he ever tries to communicate to ensure that nobody could possibly misinterpret or distort his statements into something offensive? Or is it reasonable for a person to assume that their audience will not brand them a racist for using a term that in isolation has very little to do with race? Do you honestly believe that Schiller was referring to race? If not, do y…

Yes, your hyperbole aside, I do think people should take care in how they speak. 'Urban slang' is pretty clearly associated with a particular socio-economic group (regardless of if you wish to acknowledge that or not), and saying that it, in particular, is the language that needs to be censored is not A Good Thing.

But that doesn't mean this is a grievous sin, or that it's worth getting worked up over. I didn't and am not excoriating him for it. It just struck me as I was reading the article, and I thought it was worth pointing out.

Do you honestly believe that Schiller was referring to race?

No, I don't think Schiller is a racist. But I am a little concerned that it might point to a deeper, socially embedded racism, that the terms that were deemed too offensive may actually have been inner-city slang that has equivalent terms in the accepted dictionary. If the same idea can be expressed in two different ways, one of which is considered vulgar, what, exactly is driving that categorization?

If not, do you honestly believe that a substantial portion of other readers would have interpreted it that way?

I would hope they wouldn't read it and decide that he was a racist, no, but I do think a lot of eyebrows were raised by it, yes.

If not, do you honestly belive that it was unreasonable to use the term?

Yes, I think it was a bad choice of words. Even if you ignore that there are racial connotations in the phrase, it still doesn't express what he means. Who cares about 'city' slang? Suburban or rural slang can't be extremely vulgar?

Anyways, I think it's a little ironic that we're talking about whether he should have to take care in the words he chooses to use, when the issue at hand is that his company is censoring a dictionary.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#74
post #71

It's nice that Schiller took the time to respond, but his letter doesn't make them look any better. They're still acting like useless self-appointed meddling busybodies with rigor mortis of the anal sphincter. I can accept them setting standards for hardware and software quality, but when they start imposing their standards on the flow of information, services (Google Voice) and ideas, they've lost me forever.

You won't be missed. There are far more potential customers who care about "protecting" their children from various kinds of content. They constitute a market that Apple wants to access, and the way to do that is to provide mechanisms for filtering information on their behalf. If you're fundamentally opposed to doing business with companies that restrict the flow of information in order to access wider markets, you'r…

Google doesn't try and impose themselves between me and the information I'm looking for, nor does it prevent me from dealing with any third parties that I want to do business with. I may not like what they're doing in China but I recognize that they have a gun to their heads and that they are being forced into the role of censor. Apple, on the other hand, seems to delight in meddling in my business.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is doing the filtering in the app store. People do the filtering on the browser. That is an important difference.

No, it's not, at least not to the point you were originally making, which was that Apple has put in place a system of control for apps but not for their own browser - that's false. Why are you hung up on this? I'm not saying "don't be pissed at Apple", I'm saying "don't be pissed at Apple for imaginary things".

I'm not hung up - I'm right. You do bad shit in your app, and apple doesn't let people get it. You do bad shit available in the browser, and apple leaves it up to you do not get it. It's the exact opposite policy.

If there were a parental control for the app store that blocked objectionable content, off by default, this whole issue would go away.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not, at least not to the point you were originally making, which was that Apple has put in place a system of control for apps but not for their own browser - that's false. Why are you hung up on this? I'm not saying "don't be pissed at Apple", I'm saying "don't be pissed at Apple for imaginary things".

I'm not hung up - I'm right. You do bad shit in your app, and apple doesn't let people get it. You do bad shit available in the browser, and apple leaves it up to you do not get it. It's the exact opposite policy. If there were a parental control for the app store that blocked objectionable content, off by default, this whole issue would go away.

If there were a parental control for the app store that blocked objectionable content, off by default, this whole issue would go away.

Um, that's exactly how the parental controls for the app store work. Apple uses the rating system to determine what apps are considered objectionable, the parental controls block access based on those ratings, and access to everything is enabled by default.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#77
post #42

They essentially said "ohh, we don't mind the 'swear' words, just the really bad ones" Fuck that. It is exactly the same thing, but the lexicon has evolved.

How about commenting without cursing? If you can't comment about the Ninjawords Dictionary without cursing then your opinion on Parental Controls is inherently flawed. The Parental Controls aren't there for you. They are there for me. I don't want to fill my headspace with negativity.

It fills your headspace with negativity that a dictionary includes the definitions of curse words? Its not like they peppered the menus and help with curse words.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#78
"" That Schiller was willing to respond in such detail and length, on the record, is the first proof I’ve seen that Apple’s leadership is trying to make the course correction that many of us see as necessary for the long-term success of the platform. ""

No, they're not. If they were even trying, they would have scrapped the approval process altogether. True, the approval process has resulted in many high quality applications, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not completely retarded.

Also, funny to see John Gruber changing his stance on the issue in one day.

Re: Phil Schiller Responds to App Store Dictionary Censoring

#79
post #71

It's nice that Schiller took the time to respond, but his letter doesn't make them look any better. They're still acting like useless self-appointed meddling busybodies with rigor mortis of the anal sphincter. I can accept them setting standards for hardware and software quality, but when they start imposing their standards on the flow of information, services (Google Voice) and ideas, they've lost me forever.

You won't be missed. There are far more potential customers who care about "protecting" their children from various kinds of content. They constitute a market that Apple wants to access, and the way to do that is to provide mechanisms for filtering information on their behalf. If you're fundamentally opposed to doing business with companies that restrict the flow of information in order to access wider markets, you'r…

I downvoted you. I don't wish to be mean, but what you said is just plain stupid.

> Otherwise, you're going to have to accept that some people want their information filtered by a third-party.

I totally agree with that. But I also believe that these people should not be allowed in a civilized society. Censorship is bad. End of question. There should be a zero-tolerance policy against any kind of censorship anywhere in the world.

And please, enough with the "what about the children?!" attitude. You are responsible for your children. The rest of the society doesn't have to suffer for them.

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