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MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

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Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#71
post #29

I am sure there are a lot of (under)graduate research programs that could use that money better, than some eminent professor at the end of his days. Not that the recognition and praise is undeserved, just the money could of been better utilized imho.

Completely agree. If I were trying to inspire research through monetary rewards, I wouldn't be giving them out to someone in Minsky's position, regardless of how deserving. I'd look instead to recognize someone up-and-coming who could use that to further their career and inspire others to follow in their footsteps. Minsk is already a legend.

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#72

I still remember a story I heard Gerry Sussman tell about Marvin, from when Gerry was a grad student. Gerry was programming a neural net (or something like it; I forget exactly what) and told Marvin he was planning to use a random number generator to initialize the weights in the network "so it won't have any biases". Marvin replied, in his careful, laconic way, "Of course it will have biases. You just won't know wha…

You know, I just now finally understood what was going on there: a randomized map matches no territory . Enlightenment achieved.

But it does match a territory. It's just a random one

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#73
post #10
post #9

Idiocy: My thermostat has three possible beliefs: 1) It is too warm in here. 2) It is too cold in here. 3) It is just about right. Minsky is wrong about AI in the same way that McCarthy was wrong. McCarthy really "believed" that his thermostat had three possible beliefs, and that his thermostat really "believed" one of them at any given time. http://Books.Google.com/books?id=yNJN-_jznw4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA... Searle debu…

Don't just vote me down. Give reasons. Critique my arguments. Critique Searle and Nagle, whom I cite. (You have to have read their corpus first.) Voting my comment down without giving any reason or justification proves my original point that nobody can stomach the actual evidence that I have raised, and which Searle and Nagle have also raised. You are not yet ready for the Kuhnian revolution in AI which must eventual…

You're the outsider opinion here and must present strong evidence. There is no good evidence for dualism, everything we've learned about the brain is completely consistent with materialism.

You must build a stronger case than Searle and Nagel which have been previously thoroughly debunked.

And to your overall point: To claim that we're wasting money on AI in a world we'll have self-driving cars in a few years is ridiculous. I'm surprised your main comment still seems to have a positive number of votes.

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#74
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take it as you don't have any evidence that human brain requires anything other than electromagnetism, then.

Au contraire. Since electromagnetism cannot cause intentions, or goals, and since the human obviously has both intentions and goals (teleology), it is clear that the human brain does encompass something in addition to electromagnetism. (The same statement applies to all of the chemical processes involved in the human brain.) Please read Nagle's work. Read Searle's work. Read all of the philosophical literature on "in…

> Since electromagnetism cannot cause intentions, or goals

Yes it can. Source: my brain.

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#75
post #9

Idiocy: My thermostat has three possible beliefs: 1) It is too warm in here. 2) It is too cold in here. 3) It is just about right. Minsky is wrong about AI in the same way that McCarthy was wrong. McCarthy really "believed" that his thermostat had three possible beliefs, and that his thermostat really "believed" one of them at any given time. http://Books.Google.com/books?id=yNJN-_jznw4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA... Searle debu…

There is no such thing as semantics (in the sense that you mean.) You are basing your entire argument on a bad intuition. You literally just made up a definition of "semantics" that excludes computers, and then Argue 'By Definition' (http://lesswrong.com/lw/nz/arguing_by_definition/).

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#76
post #48
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You apparently don't understand how computers work. You appears to like to jump to conclusions. > There is no "meaning" associated with any variable or its value, and there cannot be. Please give me a definition of "meaning" that can be applied to a human brain and not to a computer. And what is the evidence that it can not be applied to a computer? You are also jumping to the conclusion that, if as you claim, the…

> Please give me a definition of "meaning" that can be applied to a human brain and not to a computer. You associate a meaning to the symbol "dog". You think of an animal that barks, wags its tail, chases cats and squirrels, and is happy to see you when you get home. You associate something in the real world what that symbol. (That is the very meaning of doing semantics.) The computer does nothing of the sort with th…

You just taught us Object Oriented Programming 101.

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#77
post #63
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this thing we call "meaning"? Can it be a point in a vast and complex "pattern space" and the meaning of that point is the structure of all the "paths" that map that point to other points in this same pattern space? Our act of arbitrary categorization of patterns into "syntax" and "semantics" just seems to obscure that fact that they are just two arbitrary encodings of patterns. How can we know that one patte…

> Can it be a point in a vast and complex "pattern space" and the meaning of that point is the structure of all the "paths" that map that point to other points in this same pattern space? That's the exact point of contention, whether semantics can be represented by syntax is unknown currently, though it must hold in a materialistic world. If it can't, as some believe, then it isn't an arbitrary categorization.

Isn't the only issue here that we have here one set of spaces (brains) with that structural understanding (link/edge), and another set without that structural understanding?

It seems that the brains that possess the link are busy implementing it's isomorphic structure in technology, while the brains that do not possess the link are contributing nothing as they are still in a more "primitive" state? (Primitive meaning that they lack the linkage to see that the terms are really structurally isomorphic on the grand scale of things)

It would be interesting to know what input those brains that do not possess the link require to start possessing it.

Can there exist brains that will never make the link?

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#78
post #9

Idiocy: My thermostat has three possible beliefs: 1) It is too warm in here. 2) It is too cold in here. 3) It is just about right. Minsky is wrong about AI in the same way that McCarthy was wrong. McCarthy really "believed" that his thermostat had three possible beliefs, and that his thermostat really "believed" one of them at any given time. http://Books.Google.com/books?id=yNJN-_jznw4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA... Searle debu…

Searle is ignored by AI researchers because it has no relevance--it has been thoroughly debunked.

The question of whether the man in the chinese room understands chinese is the wrong question. Someone reading symbols from outside of the room is not interacting with the man, they are interacting with the symbols--the algorithm. The algorithm itself does understand chinese! This algorithm is made real, it is reified by the actions of the man in the room to create and sustain it. The algorithm exists on an entirely new layer of abstraction from the man. So while it is true that the man does not understand chinese, the algorithm itself demonstrates every possible requirement for understanding--semantics as you would put it.

A human is analogous to the algorithm and the man shuffling papers is analogous to our neurons. Of course our neurons do not "understand" what they are processing, but as a whole our neurons create an entity that itself has full understanding.

Semantics do in fact come from symbols. When I enter my password into my computer and it uses that password and allows me access to some resource as a consequence, that is semantics. The password string exists in a specific context within the computer system, from which it derives meaning. The difference between the computer system and a person is that the semantic meaning is not generic and integrated. The password exists within the semantic context of granting or revoking access to a resource. It can only exist here as there is no mechanism in standard programming languages for that semantic meaning to be integrated with other parts of the system (without explicitly programming every single case). The brain on the other hand has generic semantics that effortlessly allows integration of different kinds of semantics into a single whole. This is the only meaningful difference.

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I just now finally understood what was going on there: a randomized map matches no territory . Enlightenment achieved.

But it does match a territory. It's just a random one

Ok, let me put it this way: if there happens to exist some territory matched by your randomly-generated map, you still have the problem that a randomly-generated map was not in any way caused by the territory. Of course, that's just unpacking the word "match".

Re: MIT professor Marvin Minsky wins $540,000 award

#80
post #9

Idiocy: My thermostat has three possible beliefs: 1) It is too warm in here. 2) It is too cold in here. 3) It is just about right. Minsky is wrong about AI in the same way that McCarthy was wrong. McCarthy really "believed" that his thermostat had three possible beliefs, and that his thermostat really "believed" one of them at any given time. http://Books.Google.com/books?id=yNJN-_jznw4C&pg=PA30&lpg=PA... Searle debu…

Are you seriously bringing up Searle's Chinese Room as an argument against AI research? According to Wikipedia, "The Chinese room argument is primarily an argument in the philosophy of mind, and both major computer scientists and artificial intelligence researchers consider it irrelevant to their fields." Right on. First off, philosophy of mind is 100% irrelevant to modern AI research, which is more concerned with cr…

I like this deconstruction of Searle's Chinese Room, by Scott Aaronson. He calls Searle's argument a "non-insight": http://www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec4.html
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