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Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

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Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#71

Post by endtime »

randallsquared wrote: post #61
endtime wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because physics doesn't have a notion of identity, doesn't mean there is no such thing. How is that not exactly what that means?

Identity, like beauty, fun, and spiciness, is[1] something that's built on physics, not requiring a fundamental property, just as asking how much spiciness an electron has is futile. [1] Well, presuming it actually does exist as something other than confusion, which I'm not currently arguing, though I'm sympathetic to the notion.

Beauty has physical structure on a couple levels. You can either talk about certain synapses lighting up (or whatever happens in the brain when someone experiences beauty) or you can talk about facial symmetry and 1.618.

Fun is an extremely vague notion, I'm not sure what it means or if it even has a consistent set of synaptic patterns (or whatever), but I think that's probably because people don't use the term consistently (or are confused, etc., as you say).

Spiciness is absolutely purely chemical.

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#72

Post by lnanek2 »

sanoli wrote: post #47

Brazilian here. Diniz is ripped and muscular because he takes steroids, as one HNer questioned below. This is well known here to people who strength train, from all the photos he takes showing off his muscles, and from the doctors he's associated with (doctors who charge an arm and a leg to legally prescribe steroids -- this was exposed in a national magazine recently, but was quite known before). How he does keep hi…

This happens in the US too with human growth hormone prescribed to older people. I don't really see any stigma to it myself. Their hormone levels drop as they age, they don't want to die, so they get that part of aging fixed chemically at least. It's just like a recent study came out citing people over 60 are better off eating animal protein while the rest of us aren't.

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#73

Post by waterhouse »

z92 wrote: post #19

Top 10 oldest men on record, all died at age 124. One single person lived through that age to die at 128. Just 4 years more. By age 124 your lungs can't take in enough Oxygen to produce required body heat.

Your numbers seem to be off from what I've read. According to this, the ten oldest men died at ages 116, 115 (x 2), 114 (x 4), and 113 (x 3). Meanwhile, the oldest human died at age 122.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people#Ten_verified_olde...

I'm interested in your claim about lungs and oxygen. Is that really what kills these people? Several of them are listed as dying of pneumonia, so perhaps that's what you mean; though one was a "blood clot", and several don't have a cause of death listed or merely say "natural causes".

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#74

Post by sanoli »

keeptrying wrote: post #66
sanoli wrote: post #47

Brazilian here. Diniz is ripped and muscular because he takes steroids, as one HNer questioned below. This is well known here to people who strength train, from all the photos he takes showing off his muscles, and from the doctors he's associated with (doctors who charge an arm and a leg to legally prescribe steroids -- this was exposed in a national magazine recently, but was quite known before). How he does keep hi…

Taking steroids doesn't reduce the effort in getting abs and muscles. You still have to put in a heckuva effort to build that muscle.

Doesn't reduce the effort? Are you sure? To build the same amount of new muscle mass, who needs to put more effort: the natural lifter, or the one taking large doses of steroids? C'mon, I lift regularly with people on the juice. They put in a lot of effort, sure, but so do I, and they've built a lot more muscle.

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#75

Post by vubuntu »

capisce wrote: post #69
loup-vaillant wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A copy of you isn't you Actually, it is. The current laws of physics don't have the notion of identity. So swapping two identical particles not only doesn't have any effect, it doesn't even make physical sense . Like the rest of physics, this principle stays valid at the macroscopic scale. Teletransportation is a genuine form of transportation. It doesn't kill you, and the result is not a mere copy. It was traditio…

So if a copy of you were made, you would be ok with swallowing a suicide pill?

If you are asking this question after the copy was made, then the mere fact that you would be asking that question to the original, means that the original diverged from the copy. The copy was not presented with that offer (to swallow pill) and the thought processes and synaptic impressions in their brains started to diverge! They are no longer identical.

The best scenario would be if there were no concept of choice at all. Not even before the copy were made. Not even the awareness that as part of the cloning either the clone or the original would die is good enough, because you are still asking me to make a choice.

The ideal case would be I am awake today, go to sleep and tomorrow either me or my copy would wake up.

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#76

Post by jp555 »

sanoli wrote: post #74
keeptrying wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking steroids doesn't reduce the effort in getting abs and muscles. You still have to put in a heckuva effort to build that muscle.

Doesn't reduce the effort? Are you sure? To build the same amount of new muscle mass, who needs to put more effort: the natural lifter, or the one taking large doses of steroids? C'mon, I lift regularly with people on the juice. They put in a lot of effort, sure, but so do I, and they've built a lot more muscle.

Steroids significantly reduce recovery time, so you can go back and deliver another "build muscle" stimulus sooner than without the steroids (if you chronically lift before you recover you'll LOSE muscle mass). But you cannot avoid the work, you still need to work just as hard to deliver the stimulus.

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#77

Post by sanoli »

jp555 wrote: post #76
sanoli wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't reduce the effort? Are you sure? To build the same amount of new muscle mass, who needs to put more effort: the natural lifter, or the one taking large doses of steroids? C'mon, I lift regularly with people on the juice. They put in a lot of effort, sure, but so do I, and they've built a lot more muscle.

Steroids significantly reduce recovery time, so you can go back and deliver another "build muscle" stimulus sooner than without the steroids (if you chronically lift before you recover you'll LOSE muscle mass). But you cannot avoid the work, you still need to work just as hard to deliver the stimulus.

By what you're saying, someone who is lifting and taking adequate rest between sessions, ensuring that they get enough rest, won't benefit from taking steroids if they don't change their schedule? I'm saying steroids reduce recovery time, AND build muscle more easily. You're saying it's just the former.

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#78

Post by unclebucknasty »

Houshalter wrote: post #48
exratione wrote: post #29

His plan is only a plan to live healthily. In that he is like David Murdoch [1], who has the fortunate coincidence of living longer, being very wealthy, and having long had good health practices. But once you get past your 70s and 80s, the odds of living longer start to have much more to do with your genes than your past health practices. 75% of everyone with the best diets and healthiest lifestyles die before reachi…

>A copy of you isn't you. I'm surprised people still believe this. There are no souls. Nothing about the atoms in your brain are special. If I replaced them all right now with "different" atoms (if the universe even does have a unique identity assigned to every particle) you would be the same person.

Is sentience made up of atoms? Is consciousness?

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#79

Post by Houshalter »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #78
Houshalter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A copy of you isn't you. I'm surprised people still believe this. There are no souls. Nothing about the atoms in your brain are special. If I replaced them all right now with "different" atoms (if the universe even does have a unique identity assigned to every particle) you would be the same person.

Is sentience made up of atoms? Is consciousness?

Is a computer program made up of atoms? The computer it's running on is. But you can make a copy of the information in a computer program and run it on a different computer.

Re: Brazilian Billionaire Creates Plan to Beat Death

#80

Post by unclebucknasty »

Houshalter wrote: post #79
unclebucknasty wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is sentience made up of atoms? Is consciousness?

Is a computer program made up of atoms? The computer it's running on is. But you can make a copy of the information in a computer program and run it on a different computer.

Copies of the program itself are saved on a medium that is made up of atoms. Execution of the program is facilitated by the simple movement of electrons in a prescribed manner.

What is the physical nature of sentience? What are its mechanics? Does it consist of atoms?

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