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YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

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Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#71

Post by trapper »

jon_dahl wrote: post #69
brandon272 wrote: post #29

Unfortunately, there are a huge number of corporate environments that have virtually no reason to upgrade their browsing platforms. Many of these environments don't even really have a technical reason to not do the upgrade, they are just administered by overworked staff and upgrading IE6 to something newer and safer is just at the bottom of the list. The bottom line is that until the end users who have to use IE6 eve…

One of my clients ships software to such an organization - several of our users had IE6 installed when Training day rolled around. Interestingly, rather than going through Tech Support to request an upgrade to IE7 (which takes a while), the users opted to just download Firefox.

You are luckier than us - some of our customers machines are so locked down that they can't even change the date let alone install firefox. We even tried using portable apps on a usb stick, no luck there either! Arrgh.

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#72

Post by andyking »

trapper wrote: post #71
jon_dahl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my clients ships software to such an organization - several of our users had IE6 installed when Training day rolled around. Interestingly, rather than going through Tech Support to request an upgrade to IE7 (which takes a while), the users opted to just download Firefox.

You are luckier than us - some of our customers machines are so locked down that they can't even change the date let alone install firefox. We even tried using portable apps on a usb stick, no luck there either! Arrgh.

Someone installed Firefox on a computer at a non-profit radio station I was involved with not so long ago.

The owner of the station sent an email to all saying that if he found out who had installed the "firefox trojan" on the office PC, he would "sue them and call in the police". A few days later, all computers in the building had been downgraded from IE8 to IE6 and locked down so users couldn't even reboot.

It's now official policy in that company that if anyone puts their own USB drive into an office computer, they'll be asked to leave the station. There is electrical tape stuck over the USB ports. That's the sort of mindless, dribbling paranoia you're up against.

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#73

Post by brandon272 »

trapper wrote: post #71
jon_dahl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my clients ships software to such an organization - several of our users had IE6 installed when Training day rolled around. Interestingly, rather than going through Tech Support to request an upgrade to IE7 (which takes a while), the users opted to just download Firefox.

You are luckier than us - some of our customers machines are so locked down that they can't even change the date let alone install firefox. We even tried using portable apps on a usb stick, no luck there either! Arrgh.

This is the situation I see in many corporate environments. Thin clients set up and users who aren't allowed to download or install any new applications, Firefox included!

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#75

Post by jodrellblank »

trapper wrote: post #71
jon_dahl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my clients ships software to such an organization - several of our users had IE6 installed when Training day rolled around. Interestingly, rather than going through Tech Support to request an upgrade to IE7 (which takes a while), the users opted to just download Firefox.

You are luckier than us - some of our customers machines are so locked down that they can't even change the date let alone install firefox. We even tried using portable apps on a usb stick, no luck there either! Arrgh.

Why would they need to change the date? It syncs with a domain controller and if you knock it more than 15 minutes or so out you'll break kerberos and your username and password will stop working, and then you'll tell me "you didn't do anything" and "it was working fine". :-/

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#76

Post by jodrellblank »

there wrote: post #6

from the comments: You do realize that a large portion of people that are using IE6 are at work where they have NO control over the browser... i hear this every time the ie6 argument comes up, and yet, i've never heard from someone that actually works in one of these IT departments that can vouch for this. who are these unsympathetic robots who, while ironically working in an IT department, are so out of touch with t…

i've never heard from someone that actually works in one of these IT departments

Hi!

who are these unsympathetic robots who, while ironically working in an IT department, are so out of touch with technology

The same people who get emails from vendors warning us off upgrading to IE7 or certain programs will break. The same people who have had such pain from flakey apps for all sorts of reasons that we just don't dare upgrade. The same people who use anti-virus, non-administrator accounts and gateway HTTP, FTP and SMTP proxies with scanners to reduce the risks.

The same people who've learned to beat their inner geek into submission to the principle of 'if it's not broken, and you don't want it broken, leave it alone. Companies want sameness, predictability and uptime, not features, novelty, CSS compliance or security'.

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#77

Post by jodrellblank »

brandon272 wrote: post #73
trapper wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are luckier than us - some of our customers machines are so locked down that they can't even change the date let alone install firefox. We even tried using portable apps on a usb stick, no luck there either! Arrgh.

This is the situation I see in many corporate environments. Thin clients set up and users who aren't allowed to download or install any new applications, Firefox included!

Download and install? If it's one of ours, they wont even be able to right click! ;)

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#78

Post by jodrellblank »

drusenko wrote: post #42
eli wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope.. that compatibility mode is for IE7 , not IE6. (And my understanding is that it's not even a perfect emulation of IE7.) Microsoft's official recommendation for developers is to install IE6 in a VM if you need to test compatibility. It's that bad.

Hmm, you're right. Somehow that didn't make it into the final release. What a shame. Either way, our perspective is still that the more people that complain about IE 6, the more pressure IT departments will have to upgrade their systems. Starting with Firefox for a modern browsing experience wouldn't be a bad idea :)

And an antediluvian management experience. Official MSIs with transforms and group policy templates for configuration please.

(e.g. group policy configure location and size of cache, proxy settings, location of profile folder, restrictions on plugin installation, items to add to favourites, home page configuration, default plugins to install, disable update checking if they wont have rights to install them, etc).

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#79

Post by webwright »

drusenko wrote: post #65
webwright wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://blog.digg.com/?p=878 Digg surveyed IE6 users. 76% of those surveyed DO NOT HAVE THE POWER/AUTHORITY/ABILITY to upgrade. "Giving them a message saying, “Hey! Upgrade!” in this case is not only pointless; it’s sadistic. We’re committed to developing to Web standards and building new ways to help you discover the best of the Web. Keeping an eye on what technologies folks use and why they’re being used is a big pa…

The Digg survey shows that 70% of IE6 users are corporate, but there's no indication how representative that is of the web as a whole. Either way, this initiative is targeted straight at those users. We've heard from several sources that many corporate IT departments don't feel any need or urgency to upgrade, and receive very few complaints. We see this as a start -- the more complaints the IT department gets (especi…

Unfortunately, IT departments receiving complaints isn't going to do it, unless those complaints are "I can't do my job with IE6 any more"... So you need to hit core web apps for those businesses. If the choice is "we could fix our 78 different custom web apps to work on Firefox" or "we could upgrade to IE8 or FF", the choice is pretty clear for a cash-crunched business with an understaffed IT department. It's a cost-benefit thing.

For what it's worth, we don't support IE6 (or if we do, it's accidental!) and we're pretty squarely aimed at businesses and "prosumers". So count us in!

Having consulted to big companies in a former life, I just don't think it'll do much good. :-(

Re: YC startups unite to drive nail into the coffin of Internet Explorer 6

#80

Post by jodrellblank »

drusenko wrote: post #20
clistctrl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're people who work in firms that have intranet applications that were written specifically for IE6. Its cheaper to keep the browser than update some very badly written software.

Sorry, that's not an excuse. IE 8 comes with a "compatibility mode" feature where any site can choose to use the IE 6 rendering engine by setting headers or meta tags appropriately.

Sorry, that's not an excuse

I wasn't aware that companies needed an 'excuse' for not putting time and effort into a project they don't care about.

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