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How We Make Trello

blog.fogcreek.com

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Re: How We Make Trello

#71

Post by DEADB17 »

thedufer wrote: post #62
copergi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In my opinion if there's one thing a reader should take away from this it should be that Single Page Apps and separation of server and client are The. Best. Thing. Ever Those are two orthogonal things. All my sites have a complete separation of presentation from code and access a nice API to get data. Including the ones that are purely HTML and have no javascript at all. Single page apps are good for things that are…

Not completely orthogonal. The way Trello is set up, client and server releases are completely unrelated and don't have to know about each other. The web app is almost as separate from the server as the iOS/Android apps, which isn't really possible if you're rendering html in the server. That said, I agree that making something into a single page app just to get this separation isn't going to be useful.

> which isn't really possible if you're rendering html in the server.

You can have a front-end web server that is also a client of the API server and keep the separation as if it were any other API client. This is the approach I'm taking in my current project since I have to support some obsolete browsers, but more generally it lends itself to a cleaner decoupled architecture

Re: How We Make Trello

#72

Post by ssi1111 »

bobbygrace wrote: post #68
ssi1111 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you test the fixes? Which branch gets deployed to the test environment?

Everyone runs dev environments locally and tests. A dev environment is really easy to set up with mongo and node. Occasionally, we’ll put stuff on a staging environment if we want to test a database or infrastructure change. Big, experimental client changes go to the alpha channel on production.

So when you have 2 features/bug fixes in the same area, built in 2 different branches and deployed to isolated dev/test environments... the first time you might find out that they dont work well with each other is in Staging? Why wait for that when you could deploy to a common environment and catch issues sooner?

Btw... I am trying to get some teams in my company to get out of branching. So trying to understand your view (which is exactly what these teams are doing), hence these questions...

Re: How We Make Trello

#73

Post by banachtarski »

bobbygrace wrote: post #54
banachtarski wrote: post #53

> The Trello API is well-written, has no bugs, and is totally rock solid. The no bugs claim indicates to me this wasn't written by a technical person. Or at least, not very technical.

It was a joke. =)

I reread that paragraph. In context, it doesn't seem so.

Re: How We Make Trello

#75

Post by npizzolato »

banachtarski wrote: post #73
bobbygrace wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a joke. =)

I reread that paragraph. In context, it doesn't seem so.

Read more than just the paragraph. The entire article is written in a "fun", joking style.

> The revelation could result in a rippling shockwave that knocks you off your seat and may have troubling, unpredictable consequences for the time-space continuum. Possibly.

> You’ve probably downloaded our iOS, Android, Kindle, and/or Windows 8 apps, and are saying to yourself, “These are very well polished apps which I have rated or will rate favorably in their respective app stores

> The Trello API is well-written, has no bugs, and is totally rock solid. Or at least it doesn’t change very often. [Goes on to only reference the fact that it doesn't change very often]

Re: How We Make Trello

#76

Post by erichurkman »

fishtoaster wrote: post #44
sidcool wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can't be avoided, but we do tend to try and minimize it.

My experience has been that maximizing merges works best. If you're constantly merging, hardly any of your merges have any friction. The longer you're separate from the master branch, the more likely you are to get painful merges with conflicts and subtle bugs.

Elsewhere in the thread, you'll see that 'sidcool is on SVN, where merging is not a fun experience — which explains his team's aversion to merges.

Re: How We Make Trello

#77

Post by copergi »

thedufer wrote: post #62
copergi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In my opinion if there's one thing a reader should take away from this it should be that Single Page Apps and separation of server and client are The. Best. Thing. Ever Those are two orthogonal things. All my sites have a complete separation of presentation from code and access a nice API to get data. Including the ones that are purely HTML and have no javascript at all. Single page apps are good for things that are…

Not completely orthogonal. The way Trello is set up, client and server releases are completely unrelated and don't have to know about each other. The web app is almost as separate from the server as the iOS/Android apps, which isn't really possible if you're rendering html in the server. That said, I agree that making something into a single page app just to get this separation isn't going to be useful.

>which isn't really possible if you're rendering html in the server.

Yes it is, that's my point. Our designers push new templates and our developers push new binaries completely independently. We literally have an API doc that the designers put "I want this" into, and the developers implement it and update the doc to reflect it being finished. People just use template systems that make this unnatural. See heist for an example of a system that makes it natural and straight forward.

Re: How We Make Trello

#78

Post by hiisi »

steveklabnik wrote: post #48

> > The Trello API is well-written, has no bugs, and is totally rock solid. Or at > least it doesn't change very often. That means we can put out new > clients all the time without having to update the API. In fact, we can have > multiple versions of the website out at any given time.] A very counter-intuitive result: most people would not consider a stable API to let you iterate quickly!

I think the article says that the API is stable unless you have access to "Alpha" and "Beta" channels.

Re: How We Make Trello

#79

Post by avenger123 »

npizzolato wrote: post #75
banachtarski wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reread that paragraph. In context, it doesn't seem so.

Read more than just the paragraph. The entire article is written in a "fun", joking style. > The revelation could result in a rippling shockwave that knocks you off your seat and may have troubling, unpredictable consequences for the time-space continuum. Possibly. > You’ve probably downloaded our iOS, Android, Kindle, and/or Windows 8 apps, and are saying to yourself, “These are very well polished apps which I have…

I like the passion for the product. Shines through very well.
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