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Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

nytimes.com

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Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#71

Post by yeukhon »

sp332 wrote: post #53
yeukhon wrote: post #40

I wonder if law enforcement is already questioning him; I am sure FBI has eyes on him already. Yes. I want him to come out and explain to us. Any employees should come out and give us insider stories. Whoever took advantage of this (whether it's criminal or Mt itself) should be punished.

I'm pretty sure the FBI doesn't operate in Japan. (Not like that, anyway.)

But given this person was/is a US citizen (I believe he was?), even though he's now operating outside US, the States has big interest in bitcoin, perhaps the States has already compiled a stack of profile of him :)

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#72

Post by toolz »

bostonpete wrote: post #49
jbb555 wrote: post #38

I'm just hoping I can get home after work and buy some coins at the price the are now before it goes up again. I feel that this is mostly already discounted in the price, everyone was expecting it. It may drop further but it's not going to last. I should add that I only plan to spend perhaps 1% of my money available for saving/investing in bitcoin. I think it's a good investment but the risk is too high to risk more.

1% doesn't seem like "good investment" money. Sounds more like a long shot investment...

I think we call this diversification of your investments, not 'long shot' investing.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#73

Post by talmand »

dragonwriter wrote: post #67
talmand wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the FBI even consider bitcoin as something that actually has any value that requires investigating an accusation of theft?

> Does the FBI even consider bitcoin as something that actually has any value that requires investigating an accusation of theft? ISTR that both the US Justice Department and at least one state government in the US has initiated prosecution based on the fact that Bitcoin is a thing with value, so probably.

I would think they were more interested in the products being sold as compared to the made-up currency that was being used to purchase said products.

But I haven't been following that case so I have to admit I have outdated info on that one.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#74

Post by dragonwriter »

talmand wrote: post #73
dragonwriter wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does the FBI even consider bitcoin as something that actually has any value that requires investigating an accusation of theft? ISTR that both the US Justice Department and at least one state government in the US has initiated prosecution based on the fact that Bitcoin is a thing with value, so probably.

I would think they were more interested in the products being sold as compared to the made-up currency that was being used to purchase said products. But I haven't been following that case so I have to admit I have outdated info on that one.

> I would think they were more interested in the products being sold as compared to the made-up currency that was being used to purchase said products.

I'm not talking about the SR related prosecutions, I'm talking about, among others, the ponzi scheme prosecution against Bitcoin Savings & Trust, where bitcoins were invested for promised returns in bitcoins in a ponzi scheme. (Though I misrecalled, and this prosecution was a civil prosecution by the SEC not the Justice Department; still, its a pretty strong indicator that the US federal government recognizes bitcoins as thing of value when it comes to the law regarding such things.)

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#75

Post by pmorici »

davidw wrote: post #35
pmorici wrote: post #21

This is a bit bigger than Silk Road in terms of the amount of money people will probably lose but it wouldn't surprise me if something similar to the rally that followed the Silk Road take down happens. It's going to put Bitcoin in the news, this is the best entry price in the past 4 months, and Mt.Gox going under means the unethical players continue to shake out which can only be good.

> Mt.Gox going under means the unethical players continue to shake out which can only be good. I'm not completely clear on the details (likely no one is), but it seems to me that the unethical players stole a lot of money and got away scot free. Lots of innocent people lost money, and yes mtgox, an incompetent player, will get shaken out. That doesn't exactly seem like a stellar outcome.

When I say unethical players I mean Mt.Gox who's master plan was apparently to hide their insolvency while at the same time creating enough uncertainty to tank the price so they could arbitrage their money problems away.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#77

Post by hga »

sp332 wrote: post #53
yeukhon wrote: post #40

I wonder if law enforcement is already questioning him; I am sure FBI has eyes on him already. Yes. I want him to come out and explain to us. Any employees should come out and give us insider stories. Whoever took advantage of this (whether it's criminal or Mt itself) should be punished.

I'm pretty sure the FBI doesn't operate in Japan. (Not like that, anyway.)

Correct. They have offices all over the world, but they obviously don't have primary jurisdiction in this case.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#78

Post by davidw »

pmorici wrote: post #75
davidw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mt.Gox going under means the unethical players continue to shake out which can only be good. I'm not completely clear on the details (likely no one is), but it seems to me that the unethical players stole a lot of money and got away scot free. Lots of innocent people lost money, and yes mtgox, an incompetent player, will get shaken out. That doesn't exactly seem like a stellar outcome.

When I say unethical players I mean Mt.Gox who's master plan was apparently to hide their insolvency while at the same time creating enough uncertainty to tank the price so they could arbitrage their money problems away.

Well, I meant the people actually stealing money, who don't seem to get mentioned much in this whole discussion. What Empty Gox has done is not really good or right or anything, but deliberately stealing is worse in my book.

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#79

Post by pc86 »

abruzzi wrote: post #68
naterator wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came late to the Bitcoin party, so when I started mining other coins mid-last year the first thing I did was download the wallet client and encrypt, and backed it up. And I still didn't fully trust that my coins were safe, and that there wasn't some other bug in the protocol that could result in my coins getting stolen somehow (or at least confusion arising as to who owns them). I don't understand how people put so…

I think people who aren't necessarily technically savvy mistakenly treat the exchanges as their local bank. Your local bank follows a huge number of regulations, many of which are designed to keep your money safe. And in the rare event that your bank fails, your accounts are FDIC insured up to $50k (in the US, don't know if other countries have depositors insurance.) I also think that most (though apparently not all)…

FDIC insures $250,000 per depositor.[0]

[0] http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits/dis/

Re: Apparent Theft at Mt. Gox Shakes Bitcoin World

#80

Post by talmand »

dragonwriter wrote: post #74
talmand wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think they were more interested in the products being sold as compared to the made-up currency that was being used to purchase said products. But I haven't been following that case so I have to admit I have outdated info on that one.

> I would think they were more interested in the products being sold as compared to the made-up currency that was being used to purchase said products. I'm not talking about the SR related prosecutions, I'm talking about, among others, the ponzi scheme prosecution against Bitcoin Savings & Trust, where bitcoins were invested for promised returns in bitcoins in a ponzi scheme. (Though I misrecalled, and this prosecuti…

That makes me wonder if, in that case, if the SEC would have to recognize some form of value to the bitcoins lost or is it enough that the victim feels there was value to the bitcoins lost.

Just because the Feds may not recognize any value of an object you possess doesn't mean that another can simple take it on a whim.

Things like bitcoin sure make for interesting legal debates.

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