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The Man Who Built Catan

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Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#71

Post by frik »

chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

I have no evidence but Catan [0] feels to me like a board-game copy of the german "The Settlers" [1] computer game. I own both the board game and the earlier video games.

The Settlers video game is a more complex and is more like Age of Empires (a few years later) but with a focus on low level business and building up of an economy. You need a forester, lumberjack and a sawmill to get planks. You need a well, a corn farm, a corn mill and a baker to get bread. But the basic goal is to expand your territory like years later in Catan. Anno [2] video game series is very similar to The Settlers with a focus on trading ships and islands.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Settlers_of_Catan

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Settlers

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_(series)

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#72

Post by pessimizer »

philwelch wrote: post #38
Pxtl wrote: post #18

The great thing about Catan is how it's a wedge. It's a gateway drug into the world of modern boardgames (I don't say Eurogames because there's some fantastic Ameritrash). People who play Catan are then amicable to try out other fun great games like Ticket To Ride and Small World.

I thought the distinction between "Eurogames" and "Ameritrash" had more to do with design style than actual nationality.

It does. I'm not sure what you're seeing in the comment you replied to that seems like it's implying otherwise, though.

Eurogames trace their ancestry from early American designers, and Europeans have contributed some really garish ameritrash (esp. the British.)

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#73

Post by talmand »

graylights wrote: post #9
chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

I'd argue that Catan is much less complex monopoly. Just that most people learn monopoly at a very young age so they never notice the complexity. Monopoly's rules are 6 pages of pure text. Catan's rules are 4 pages with some illustration. I don't understand at all why monopoly is the universal board game that every kid learns. It's a horrible game that drags on for hours. Even though I don't particular care for Catan…

There's a much simplified version of Monopoly intended for kids that involves locations within a park that you place booths on. The buying and selling mechanic is there but rules concerning property is greatly reduced.

That's what I introduced to my daughter concerning Monopoly and she loved it. Helped her with the concept of basic math as well.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#74

Post by talmand »

mseebach wrote: post #65
thatswrong0 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be valid if most modern monopolies weren't the product of government intervention.

In the game this is exemplified by forcing you to progress through life on a preset course and force you to pay rents to the incumbents that you come across on that narrow path. The dice roll of course represents that life is unpredictable. But I struggle to find the real world analogy where I go bankrupt because I randomly end up in a hotel in Park Avenue.

Never mind the fact that you are forced to move every day from a location you likely can easily afford to a new location not knowing whether you can afford it or not. How can you plan for the future when you move from $200 rent to $2000 rent in a single day with no new income?

What strange shenanigans is going on that compels me to move so much? Especially moving into hotels when I previously lived in a house.

For that matter, if a property doesn't have a house nor hotel what am I paying rent for? The street?

Also, why can't I build a house on my property unless I own the two or three properties in the same area?

I also fail to see how one is supposed to learn anything about economics from the game other than just the basics that takes five minutes to explain.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#75

Post by [deleted] »

frik wrote: post #71
chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

I have no evidence but Catan [0] feels to me like a board-game copy of the german "The Settlers" [1] computer game. I own both the board game and the earlier video games. The Settlers video game is a more complex and is more like Age of Empires (a few years later) but with a focus on low level business and building up of an economy. You need a forester, lumberjack and a sawmill to get planks. You need a well, a corn…

[deleted]

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#76

Post by talmand »

Pxtl wrote: post #18

The great thing about Catan is how it's a wedge. It's a gateway drug into the world of modern boardgames (I don't say Eurogames because there's some fantastic Ameritrash). People who play Catan are then amicable to try out other fun great games like Ticket To Ride and Small World.

Is "Ameritrash" supposed to be a positive or negative labeling?

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#77

Post by talmand »

For those who might be interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3WJTlDa7oo

This is a Table Top episode hosted by Wil Wheaton playing Settlers of Catan. There is also another episode where they play the Star Trek variation.

Also, if you haven't seen this series and are interested in board games I highly suggest you watch other episodes. The level of interest will vary from episode to episode based on whether you like the type of game they play. But they give you a decent idea of how the game works and how it is played.

I have made several board game purchases based on this show.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#78

Post by nogridbag »

jl6 wrote: post #51
nogridbag wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow. Apparently, I've been playing Catan incorrectly the whole time. I never knew an opposing player's settlement can obstruct my own path (and split a path into two).

It definitely splits a longest road but does it obstruct you in building further?

See here:

http://www.catan.com/faq/4624-roads-may-roads-i-build-go-thr...

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#79

Post by protonfish »

philwelch wrote: post #32
mdmarra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly only drags on for hours if you play by silly house rules like $400 for landing on Go, money for landing on Free Parking, or not requiring an auction when passing on purchasing a property. All of these common house rules artificially extend the game by either injecting cash into the game or slowing the acquisition of property. A vanilla game of 4 player monopoly should take no more than an hour.

To me the problem with Monopoly isn't just that it takes forever, but that you can get into a commanding position early and spend most of the game slowly bleeding your opponents to death one by one. Monopoly is a game to resent people over.

Which is why the game should end as soon as there is a clear winner. I find tipping the board over to be effective in this regard.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#80

Post by JoshTriplett »

VLM wrote: post #69
graylights wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that Catan is much less complex monopoly. Just that most people learn monopoly at a very young age so they never notice the complexity. Monopoly's rules are 6 pages of pure text. Catan's rules are 4 pages with some illustration. I don't understand at all why monopoly is the universal board game that every kid learns. It's a horrible game that drags on for hours. Even though I don't particular care for Catan…

Sorry for the late post, but its a very stereotypical american board game vs eurogame difference that all the complexity in American board games is in the rules, not in the resulting gameplay, but in eurogames ideally the rules are as short as possible and all the complexity is in the gameplay. The ultimate extreme american game would have something like the entire code of federal regulations for rules, but gameplay…

Chutes 'n Ladders, much like Candy Land, is not a game in the strictest sense: the result is entirely random, and there are no decisions to make. In both cases, the game is only an exercise in following rules, counting, moving tokens around, and winning and losing graciously. There's value in that, but calling it a game is a stretch.
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