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Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

m.theatlantic.com

71–80 of 111 posts

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can give it a shot... So Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen were sitting around (presumably) looking over the mathematical foundations of Quantum Mechanics, when they noticed something. In certain situations, you could end up with one wave function describing two physically separated particles in a mutual superposition of states. The consequence is that altering the state of one particle would instantaneously cause the…

Not to be "that guy", but a lot of this is terribly incorrect: * General relativity did not come from "grasping the mathematics" of special relativity. SR can be completely understood by an undergraduate and is an internally consistent description of mechanics and electromagnetic phenomena. Like Newtonian mechanics before it, it doesn't need anything more to be consistent. * Local hidden variables are not "likely wro…

Note local hidden variables is impossible. The pilot wave theory is the theory of "hidden variables" that led Bell to his theorem. Basically, EPR shows that either nature is nonlocal or there were hidden variables. Bell showed that hidden variables had to have something nonlocal about them. So Einstein created relativity and helped to highlight how nature has an aspect that seems incompatible with it (basically, there is a "now" which, however, may be undetectable and is not our "now").

For those curious, the nonlocal hidden variables are the positions of the particles. Very hidden. So hidden, they are the only thing we see in experiments!

The particles are guided by the wave function. This resolves all the weird paradoxes such as Schrodinger's cat. It provides a great way to understand and investigate nonlocality, spin, identical particles, etc. in a very precise theory that even has broadly applying existence and uniqueness of solution theorems, unlike classical mechanics.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-bohm/

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can give it a shot... So Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen were sitting around (presumably) looking over the mathematical foundations of Quantum Mechanics, when they noticed something. In certain situations, you could end up with one wave function describing two physically separated particles in a mutual superposition of states. The consequence is that altering the state of one particle would instantaneously cause the…

Not to be "that guy", but a lot of this is terribly incorrect: * General relativity did not come from "grasping the mathematics" of special relativity. SR can be completely understood by an undergraduate and is an internally consistent description of mechanics and electromagnetic phenomena. Like Newtonian mechanics before it, it doesn't need anything more to be consistent. * Local hidden variables are not "likely wro…

> Not to be "that guy"

Now why don't I believe that? ;-)

> * General relativity did not come from "grasping the mathematics" of special relativity.

I wrote that he had to "grasp enough of the mathematics to finally formulate the General Theory of Relativity". Human language is neat in the way it allows for ambiguities, but if you understood "the mathematics" in that sentence to be a reference to SR, then that is because it is what you read into it. I was referring to the time it took for Einstein to fully understand/appreciate the work of Minkowski.

> * Local hidden variables are not "likely wrong", they are provably impossible

...but they are also not the only formulation of a hidden variables-type solution, as I pointed out follow-on comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7249468

> * Entanglement does not break the principle of causality. "Spooky action at a distance" is not an "effect" in a well-defined physical sense. It cannot be used to send information or cause things to happen.

Funny, I thought I wrote: "While this is not, strictly speaking, a violation of General Relativity as no information is exchanged." Oh wait, I did.

> * All of this could be--and was--understood without the EPR paper. Relativity was the most important thing since Newton. EPR was minor in comparison.

Yes, and Einstein also wasn't the only physicist to come across the field equations in GR. He just happened to be the only one to appreciate their full impact. No scientific discovery stands in isolation, so it's really not worth debating this point much. I have noticed, however, that many in the QM community seem to look down on EPR and much of Einstein's other work in QM, probably (not entirely without justification) because of the rather dim view Einstein held on much of their work.

> * I have no idea what connection you're trying to draw between sentient life and QM.

Not me. You should go talk to John Archibald Wheeler about the Participatory Anthropic Principle.

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#73
Actually, Khazan is losing the plot. The whole point of the research she's referencing through 3 levels of indirection (the Atlantic, NBC News, Nature News, and Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences) is that key breakthroughs in Phyiscs are occurring at ever increasing age with time.

Granted, the research looks only at Nobel Prize winners in physics, but the general reason stated: that there's more information to learn and assimilate, suggests a general principle of increasing complexity and decreasing returns to innovation, which is a key point raised by Joseph Tainter (The Collapse of Complex Societies).

See Weinberg & Jones: "Age dynamics in scientific creativity" http://www.pnas.org/content/108/47/18910

Also highlighted in an earlier Nature News item on W&J is the increasing reliance of breakthroughs on expensive equipment, not always accessible to the most junior researchers, an observation also consistent with increasing complexity and diminishing returns with time:

Other experts in scientific creativity welcomed the study but note other reasons why the age of laureates might have increased, such as improvements in health or the fact that, in many fields, research now requires expensive equipment. "21- and 22-year-olds simply don't get access to this kind of equipment," says Paula Stephan at Georgia State University in Atlanta, who provided some data for the Nobel study. She adds that it isn't always possible to pinpoint "one magic date" when scientists made their discoveries.

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111107/full/news.2011.632.ht...

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#75
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, strictly speaking I do live in France at the moment, so your bizarre implication is actually true - but I did just move here 7 days ago. Anyway, yes people do complain about the NHS in general, for all sorts of reasons, but I'd wager that most people don't complain about the fact that we have the NHS, and realise that it's actually really great compared to the situations in countries which don't have univer…

I'm a Polish guy with US passport who spent many, many years in the USA and my feeling is as follows: In the US people complain about one single thing regarding the healthcare - cost. In Poland they'll complain about long waiting lists, not enough doctors, not sufficient care, basically everything is worse than in the US - except the cost. I for one don't think that the major objective of healthcare system is not to…

Most countries with socialized healthcare systems that I am aware of actually has a longer life expectancy than the USA. This is true for Canada, Germany, Norway, etc.

I do not know if life expectancy is a measure for quality of health care, but it is at least an indicator of how good the general health is.

On a personal note I would say that my experience with the US health care system has left a lot to be desired, and I experienced the care as better in my native Norway. That said, my girlfriend is a doctor and her health plan seems a lot better so my experience can be anecdotal.

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#76
post #4

A distinction I read somewhere, that I think is useful, is that people tend to be either primarily conceptualist in their thinking, or they are empiricists who learn from experience. Conceptualists have their big breakthroughs before the age of 35, and empiricists have their big breakthroughs after 35. In conceptual fields, such as math and physics, the big breakthroughs happen young. Werner Heisenberg was 27 when he…

This raises the question - are there fields in tech or software engineering that are mostly empirical or mostly conceptual?

mostly conceptual: Computer Science.

mostly empirical: Programming.

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#77
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EPR paradox was resolved a while ago, strongly in favour of Einstein's "spooky action at a distance". The first experiments were done in the 70's. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem Also the last paragraph of the introduction at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox

Yes, but as with most things in physics, the first signs that an idea is dead usually come decades before the ghost is truly given up. Take, for example, this work from 2012 that was still dealing with a variation on the "hidden variables" formulation: http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/10/quantum-entanglement-...

I think you have a larger problem though.

A theory is (as Heisenberg explained in his book "Physics and Philosophy") an interpretation of data based upon unscientific, non-falsifiable, a priori assumptions on the part of the theorist. You can't really disprove something as nebulous as "hidden variables." That's not a falsifiable statement. What you can do is disprove some theory based on hidden variables. Such evidence does not apply to the possibility of other theories of hidden variables that are yet unformulated.

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#78

As someone in my late 30s I think the main reason is this- Its time then to stop fking around and just get it done. It dawns on you at this age where you are in your life, how far you've got to go and it annoys you that thus far you didn't get 'it' done yet. You're not staring death in the face but you're close enough to feel its influence. If not now when? That spurs you on, beyond any motivation you ever had at any…

There is always a back-up plan of having kids, focusing on raising them well and hoping that maybe they will come up with something cool.

Unlike the other respondants, I am going to be supportive but still a bit critical. They do have a point that when "cool" is too narrowly defined, everyone misses out.

But that being said, what is missing in our society right now is a more reasonable form of this, which says "invest in your children's businesses, help them achieve success, and see your children's economic life as your retirement plan." Your kids may have their own lives, and very often they are going to get to define what 'cool' means. But if there is mutual support there, they are far more likely to succeed.

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#79

There may be hope for me yet according to this, but at the moment, I really have no fucking clue what to do. My early thirties were filled with great ideas for startups. My early fourties are filled with depression that I'm past my prime, don't have the energy, risk tolerance, or money to do a startup, and don't have money to go back to school, so it really doesn't matter what my passion is. Somehow I still need to f…

Why do you think you even have a 'prime'? The concept of a "prime" period in your life is entirely relative to the context of any given situation in your life at a specific point in time.

Shift your thinking to the present, don't pine over the past or worry about the future. At any given moment, you are capable of being the best you can be for the situation you are in. These are the variables you can control - so control them. And frankly, the older you get, the more capable of handling the present you become due to experience.

"Somehow I still need to find a passion and change" Why? What are you doing that you need to change? What do you mean by "passion" and why do you need to find it? What are you doing that is preventing you from finding your "passion"?

I'm not asking these questions for my benefit - ask them of yourself. And most importantly, follow through on the answers. There is absolutely no reason to be depressed about being in your 40's - you have double the experience and way more resources now then you did when you were 20.

Put it another way, you have another 20 years until you are in your sixties, and that's when you will REALLY be out of energy.

Re: Big Breakthroughs Come in Your Late 30s

#80
post #55
post #5

The corollary is Cheap, Easy To Exploit Labour Is Most Readily Available In Your Twenties™. (The VC lemma being, "Labour costs are a big majority of web startup input costs")

That's assuming all labor is equivalent which seems ridiculous on the surface. I mean start-ups are hardly shoveling snow. Young founders get more free publicity seems far more realistic to me.

>That's assuming all labor is equivalent which seems ridiculous on the surface. I mean start-ups are hardly shoveling snow.

They hardly do anything impressive computer-science or programming wise either.

Programming like something Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr et co, including a lot of the early scaling challenges, is not that much removed from "shovelling snow".

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