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1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

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Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#71

Post by jballanc »

aortega wrote: post #62
jballanc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed. Law: A descriptive generalization about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances. Hypothesis: A testable statement about the natural world that can be used to build more complex inferences and explanations. Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate fac…

Funny you mention the Newton's Laws of Motion, that's the most famous theory demonstrated to be totally wrong. It was a very good guess though.

sigh ...take a moment to re-read what I wrote. Then take a moment to re-read what you wrote.

Newton's LAWS of Motion are not a THEORY. They are a descriptive generalization about how gravitation behaves under stated circumstances. Those circumstances being slow speeds and large masses. In those circumstances, they are not wrong. They are a generalization. The THEORY of General Relativity contains Newton's LAWS of motion as a part of the overall framework.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#72

Post by Iftheshoefits »

wvenable wrote: post #55
waps wrote: post #37

In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around…

> the earth is standing still, it's not moving... it is moving in a straight line Wait, is the earth moving or not? I also can't figure out what definition of orbit you are using. Your comment feels far too clever for it's own good.

It is too clever, by half. From my perspective it's a long-winded and self-contradictory (as you note) attempt at punning with curvature tensors and metrics, only not doing it right.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#73

Post by piyush_soni »

cema wrote: post #66
piyush_soni wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean around 1 out of 2 Americans doesn't believe in evolution? That's scary.

Why is that scary? If we assume it is indeed a matter of belief the 50/50 chance is not that bad. Now, I suppose both you and me think about it more as a matter of science, but how many people understand what science is (and why), how the scientific method is applied and so on? Well fewer than 50%, I'd guess. US, Europe or Africa, any place.

Well, for that question Europe fared much better. 70% believed in evolution. Only Russia was worse than US.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#74

Post by lutusp »

waps wrote: post #37

In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around…

> This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change.

This is just one of many egregious errors the OP makes, scattered alongside a few obviously misunderstood elements of real physics. I advise HN readers to ignore the OP's post.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#75

Post by ballard »

cema wrote: post #66
piyush_soni wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean around 1 out of 2 Americans doesn't believe in evolution? That's scary.

Why is that scary? If we assume it is indeed a matter of belief the 50/50 chance is not that bad. Now, I suppose both you and me think about it more as a matter of science, but how many people understand what science is (and why), how the scientific method is applied and so on? Well fewer than 50%, I'd guess. US, Europe or Africa, any place.

People that operate outside of coherent, explainable, rational principles tempered by compassion are bigger liabilities. It's common sense.

Departing from this is what allows folks to believe violent terrorism to be a viable strategy to "win."

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#76

Post by MichaelGG »

BrownBuffalo wrote: post #4

I have Wikipedia for this. No joke. This is kind of like the argument about students during math using a calculator. General knowledge is less of a requirement even here in NYS with the Regents system. California I'm sure is more of the same. As long as you know how to find it, that's all that matters in life.

Wikipedia for basic facts about the Earth? That's similar to saying you shouldn't need to learn how to add or multiply or calculate percentages because you have a calculator. (Not to mention, the real point of maths isn't calculation.)

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#77

Post by twiceaday »

MichaelGG wrote: post #68
pyrrhotech wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's obviously because a lot of people have religious beliefs that make more sense to them than evolution. It's not that they haven't heard of evolution, but that they reject it for the simpler theory found in their 3000 year old book.

IME, that's because most people haven't ever heard any reasonable explanation of evolution. They honestly believe that evolution is just "random things happened and fish decided to walk on land". That "animals wanted to see so they randomly got eyes". Given that explanation of evolution of course they're going to reject it - that explanation is nonsense. Creation is only simpler if you exclude the axiom of having som…

It's almost as if this stuff should be taught in school.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#78

Post by ealloc »

waps wrote: post #37

In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around…

There are 3 main proofs (I know of) that the Earth orbits the Sun:

1. Stellar parallax: Stars will appear at slightly different positions in the sky due to the changing position of the Earth during its orbit. Many astronomers from the 1500s to 1800s hoped to measure parallax, and it was finally measured by Friedrich Bessel in 1838. This is the work that first made Bessel famous.

2. Stellar Aberration: Stars appear at slightly different positions during the course of the year due to the finite speed of light relative to the (changing) velocity of the Earth. This was first explained and carefully measured by James Bradley in 1729, making him the most famous scientist of the 18th century according to scientists of the time, including Laplace.

3. The Foucault pendulum: Pendulums on Earth precess. This is not so much proof that the Earth orbits the Sun, but that the Earth rotates in place. The fact that the sun appears to rise/fall/go around us is an illusion due to this rotation. First demonstrated by Foucault in 1851.

I disagree with you on the reference frame/general relativity argument. It is true that, by GR, the actualy picture of spacetime is more complicated. However, there is an intuitive notion of 'orbiting' which is very useful which applies in classical/SR, which applies in inertial reference frames, and in that ase the above observations make clear that the Earth orbits the sun.

Also:

>it's still an open question if bacteria evolve or not

> If the earth ever starts orbiting the sun...as the resulting acceleration would affect magma flow

This is silly.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#79

Post by lutusp »

chc wrote: post #53
waps wrote: post #37

In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around…

What is the meaningful difference between orbiting and moving in a straight line that creates an ellipsoid in Euclidean space?

Well, apart from the fact that the OP is an undisciplined mixture of almost-right physics and fantasy, spacetime isn't Euclidean, it's curved by masses.

But, contrary to the OP, if you took a position above the sun's north pole, you would certainly see the planets orbiting the sun, just as in pre-relativistic physics. The reason? A different spacetime curvature at that location.

It's true that, in modern physical theory, there's no force called gravity. It's also true that the earth is moving in an inertial "straight" path through curved spacetime. But it is absolutely false to say that the earth isn't orbiting the sun.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#80

Post by GhotiFish »

waps wrote: post #37

In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around…

hell. No one knows anything if you assert that you don't truly know what something is unless you understand every minute intricacy of it. Most people wouldn't define gravity as an object moving in a straight line through space time. However those that know that that is the nature of gravity, would then define gravity as such.
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