Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

wired.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 205 posts

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#71

Post by teekert »

swalsh wrote: post #68

I've been trying to think about "rethinking" government for quite a while. The idea of a web based governance system seems really appealing, in the sense that I think the greatest strength of the web is how quickly ideas can go from concept to execution. Its about the closest thing to a meritocracy as we've ever come, and that's simply because the gate keeper is thrown away. Think about how many great things have spr…

I fear that you are overestimating humanity: "The idea has overwhelming support, so someone creates a new policy component, and gives permissions to suction tax funds"... You are not afraid that this will lead to radical redistribution of wealth eventually resulting in loss of motivation to create wealth? (Yes, the Atlas Shrugged scenario.)

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#72

Post by swalsh »

teekert wrote: post #71
swalsh wrote: post #68

I've been trying to think about "rethinking" government for quite a while. The idea of a web based governance system seems really appealing, in the sense that I think the greatest strength of the web is how quickly ideas can go from concept to execution. Its about the closest thing to a meritocracy as we've ever come, and that's simply because the gate keeper is thrown away. Think about how many great things have spr…

I fear that you are overestimating humanity: "The idea has overwhelming support, so someone creates a new policy component, and gives permissions to suction tax funds"... You are not afraid that this will lead to radical redistribution of wealth eventually resulting in loss of motivation to create wealth? (Yes, the Atlas Shrugged scenario.)

Actually I fully expect people to make terrible decisions, That's why I tried to make the system compartmentalized with specific rules on what kind of policy can go where. In this way if people go overboard the system can be ditched easily, and we can try again. Today failure is not an option. Which means its way too risky to try new things. I want to design the system so failure is easy to recover from.

I should do a better write up sometime.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#73

Post by [deleted] »

swalsh wrote: post #68

I've been trying to think about "rethinking" government for quite a while. The idea of a web based governance system seems really appealing, in the sense that I think the greatest strength of the web is how quickly ideas can go from concept to execution. Its about the closest thing to a meritocracy as we've ever come, and that's simply because the gate keeper is thrown away. Think about how many great things have spr…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#74

Post by jnbiche »

zackmorris wrote: post #43
nawitus wrote: post #13

The internet is decentralized, the web has never been. HTTP protocol doesn't support it. But it's time to do that. What we need is the possibility of peer-to-peer connections between browsers.

While I agree that TCP/IP is decentralized, unfortunately due to NAT and corporate firewalls, vast swaths of users have been relegated to second class citizens who can only act as data consumers. Unfortunately this same misguided approach to security, or as I call it suckerity, has been carried forward into IPv6. There is some hope that WebRTC and other p2p technologies might alleviate the problem but then the task o…

This is exactly the problem. We need a better transport layer.

You know, the speed at which SPDY has caught on has given me hope. Admittedly, that's at the application layer, but I think if Google were to get behind an initiative to create a better TCP, it would actually have a chance at working. Historically, Google's incentives were properly aligned with a decentralized Internet, but Google is more and more a content producer. So I'm not sure.

Until then, we'll have to rely on servers to bootstrap peer-to-peer networks, even Bitcoin, Bittorrent, and yes, WebRTC.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#75

Post by foobarqux »

nawitus wrote: post #13

The internet is decentralized, the web has never been. HTTP protocol doesn't support it. But it's time to do that. What we need is the possibility of peer-to-peer connections between browsers.

That doesn't seem nearly as important as having a decentralized data store.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#76

Post by jnbiche »

swalsh wrote: post #68

I've been trying to think about "rethinking" government for quite a while. The idea of a web based governance system seems really appealing, in the sense that I think the greatest strength of the web is how quickly ideas can go from concept to execution. Its about the closest thing to a meritocracy as we've ever come, and that's simply because the gate keeper is thrown away. Think about how many great things have spr…

Someone else has similar ideas, but I think I prefer their vision of the future:

http://bitcoinism.blogspot.com/2013/12/lex-cryptographia.htm...

It leverages Bitcoin, but not in a way to "suction" taxes away from unwilling participants.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#77

Post by rubiquity »

jnbiche wrote: post #74
zackmorris wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that TCP/IP is decentralized, unfortunately due to NAT and corporate firewalls, vast swaths of users have been relegated to second class citizens who can only act as data consumers. Unfortunately this same misguided approach to security, or as I call it suckerity, has been carried forward into IPv6. There is some hope that WebRTC and other p2p technologies might alleviate the problem but then the task o…

This is exactly the problem. We need a better transport layer. You know, the speed at which SPDY has caught on has given me hope. Admittedly, that's at the application layer, but I think if Google were to get behind an initiative to create a better TCP, it would actually have a chance at working. Historically, Google's incentives were properly aligned with a decentralized Internet, but Google is more and more a conte…

> but I think if Google were to get behind an initiative to create a better TCP, it would actually have a chance at working.

I don't think Google has much interest in a decentralized web. Google, along with Facebook, are two of the prime examples of a centralized web.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#78

Post by doctoboggan »

Perfect timing, I just released a tool that enabled a more decentralized web. It used BitTorrent Sync to distribute files and I plan on implementing namecoin or colored coins for name resolution. As soon as an open source, stable btsync clone is released I plan on swapping it in.

The biggest drawback is that you can only serve static content, although I think many websites today would be fine with this restriction.

You can read more on my website: http://jack.minardi.org/software/syncnet-a-decentralized-web...

Follow along with the development on github here: https://github.com/jminardi/syncnet

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#79

Post by p4bl0 »

doctoboggan wrote: post #78

Perfect timing, I just released a tool that enabled a more decentralized web. It used BitTorrent Sync to distribute files and I plan on implementing namecoin or colored coins for name resolution. As soon as an open source, stable btsync clone is released I plan on swapping it in. The biggest drawback is that you can only serve static content, although I think many websites today would be fine with this restriction. Y…

This is quite nice. You should submit it as a "Show HN". You can be sure that as soon as you have a free software replacement for btsync I'll use it at least to serve my personal website.

By the way, have you heard about Freenet? https://freenetproject.org/

Re: Tim Berners-Lee: We need to re-decentralise the web

#80

Post by joshstrange »

p4bl0 wrote: post #79
doctoboggan wrote: post #78

Perfect timing, I just released a tool that enabled a more decentralized web. It used BitTorrent Sync to distribute files and I plan on implementing namecoin or colored coins for name resolution. As soon as an open source, stable btsync clone is released I plan on swapping it in. The biggest drawback is that you can only serve static content, although I think many websites today would be fine with this restriction. Y…

This is quite nice. You should submit it as a "Show HN". You can be sure that as soon as you have a free software replacement for btsync I'll use it at least to serve my personal website. By the way, have you heard about Freenet? https://freenetproject.org/

He did a few days ago[0] but it didn't get very much attention unfortunately. I only saw it because I spent way too much time on HN that day.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7171978

Post reply on HN