Is it satire?
It has that feel, doesn't it?
Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
71–80 of 97 posts
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#72This is an entirely pointless false dichotomy. "Coding" and "Programming" are just synonyms of the same damn thing: make a turing machine do stuff. I have no idea why people are suddenly trying to make a false distinction when there was none for decades and decades, but frankly it's stupid. My only thought is there's a bunch of butt sore guys who are upset that learning to make a computer do stuff is nothing special and are now trying to find a new way to differentiate themselves with the moniker "Programmer" and looking to shit on anyone who's "Just A Coder".
So I propose a new term. Turingulate: verb. Making a turing machine do stuff. Typing Python into a file and running it with python? Turingulated! Running a PD graph to create a fuzz pedal? Turingulating! Using Max/SP? Turingulating! Programming because you're so special? Turingulate. Coding to .. uh code some ... uh code... which isn't programming? Turingulator!
So stupid.
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#73This is an entirely pointless false dichotomy. "Coding" and "Programming" are just synonyms of the same damn thing: make a turing machine do stuff. I have no idea why people are suddenly trying to make a false distinction when there was none for decades and decades, but frankly it's stupid. My only thought is there's a bunch of butt sore guys who are upset that learning to make a computer do stuff is nothing special…
Colloquially they are synonyms. Especially amongst people who don't make software. It's not derogatory and not worth getting bent out of shape about.
BUT ... (Bet you saw this coming)
Coders turn detailed specs into code. No real thought required.
Programmers, or software developers, design systems and code them themselves.
That's the distinction I make anyway. I've seen coders at some workplaces. It's a dreary job and I would never do it.
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#74This is an entirely pointless false dichotomy. "Coding" and "Programming" are just synonyms of the same damn thing: make a turing machine do stuff. I have no idea why people are suddenly trying to make a false distinction when there was none for decades and decades, but frankly it's stupid. My only thought is there's a bunch of butt sore guys who are upset that learning to make a computer do stuff is nothing special…
Colloquially they are synonyms. Especially amongst people who don't make software. It's not derogatory and not worth getting bent out of shape about. BUT ... (Bet you saw this coming) Coders turn detailed specs into code. No real thought required. Programmers, or software developers, design systems and code them themselves. That's the distinction I make anyway. I've seen coders at some workplaces. It's a dreary job a…
I have seen similar articles with the word "programmer" used in place of "coder" and "developer" used in place of "programmer". I don't think there is any hard and fast rules as to what makes a coder / programer / developer / software engineer.
I think that is part of the problem. The outside world sees these as equal. While after 10 years in the industry I can see the difference between someone who can write a script that will get the job done (for the time being), and someone who can design / write decent code that you expect to be working a year or two later.
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#75Focusing on solving a problem instead of the tool is what motivates me to try new frameworks and actually code.
I agree that the focus has shifted way too much on spec. technologies unfortunately.
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody would say that say, advanced mathematics is broken because the layman doesn't get it. We do make math more tractable and accessible over time with various reformulations and new abstractions and conceptual tools, though. You're probably using arabic numerals when you do arithmetic, and there are good reasons for that. (Though heaven knows, if I'm likely to run across an abacist anywhere in this sort of discu…
And computers have been made more tractable and accessible over time with reformulations and abstractions. And at a much faster pace. People who think that programming is not dramatically easier today than ten years ago just have a short memory. Or they're 25 years old...
I wouldn't say it is easier (or harder), I would say it is different. Before you were having to remember lots of tricks to fit as much information into as little memory as possible. Today we have lots more stuff to remember. Operating systems are way more complex.
At the end of the day, most people are programming at a far higher level, so things are more productive. I have produced a reasonably sophisticated databases / web front end for my work, in Django as a one man team. Ten years ago I believe that it would have taken far more man hours to achieve the same thing. I don't have to remember tricks to compress data, as disk space is cheap now. I do have to know reasonably advanced SQL, and remember a lot about how Django works.
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#77This is an entirely pointless false dichotomy. "Coding" and "Programming" are just synonyms of the same damn thing: make a turing machine do stuff. I have no idea why people are suddenly trying to make a false distinction when there was none for decades and decades, but frankly it's stupid. My only thought is there's a bunch of butt sore guys who are upset that learning to make a computer do stuff is nothing special…
I cannot agree more.
bored of those nonsense terms distinction if you see on linkedin or the likes everyone has his own software architect, wargods of the mighty developing...
Turingulators!
A Programming Motherfucker
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
having used labview I'd say that if that is the pinnacle of visual programming, then it has quite a bit of improvement needed.
Did I say it was the pinnacle? GGP post suggested that visual programming was vaporware. Perhaps for general purpose programming it is, but visual programming itself is not vaporware.
Visual programming has small niches where it fits well. GUI building for example. Actually the query builder in MS Access wasn't so bad, but it was a choice of learning that or remembering "proper" SQL when I used it. Proper SQL seemed more useful.
Likewise with functional programming. I uses small bits here and there when it is appropriate to write cleaner code. I would struggle to build anything of any size using FP.
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never personally used LabView (well, maybe in a Physics 101 lab in college, but that was a while back). The people using it in the offices I've worked in have generally been electrical engineers, perhaps the schematic view meshes better with their mental model of computation. It seemed to work well on most of the projects. EDIT: I should add, when I did look at the LabView stuffs, it seemed to make sense to me (as…
I suspect that of equal importance to the schematic view, for electrical engineers, is the dataflow programming model. Another dataflow based programming tool, albeit non Turing complete, is Excel.
I have thought of excel as the closest real thing we have to visual programming.
Its a shame that it seems to be based on a "grid" rather than a better data structure. I guess that is why it makes sense to most non programers though.
Re: Don't Learn to Code, Learn to Program – But Come Back in 10 Years
#80I think the reason visual programming hasn't taken off is there is a very real difference between what you can express with language and what you can express visually. Images don't really contain determinate, precise statements or propositions the same way that written or spoken word does. In contrast language can express any thought, no matter how recursive or abstract, effortlessly. For the narrow domain of program…
I would say I am pretty visual. I like to draw ER diagrams of database design so I can see whats going on. I usually have a visual representation of the tables in my head with positions when I am thinking of queries. The tables stay in the same position (probably based o the ER diagram I drew ages ago).