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Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

nytimes.com

71–80 of 199 posts

Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#71
post #3

The headline might as well be a more Onionesque "After gaining power, politician turns out not to actually hold the strongly principled views he expressed while campaigning". I'd be surprised if Obama holds any of the views he expressed during his campaign. A campaign is a marketing effort intended to install a team of people in power. Generally speaking, the vast majority of power holders agree that aggressive spyin…

Does it really have to be that cynical? Don't you think it is entirely possible pre-2008 Obama's opinions were formed with the same information as the rest of us and post-2008 Obama received more information (national security briefings) that completely blew away his belief system? I don't agree with much of what the Obama administration has done regarding domestic and international surveillance but I always feel like we should give ALL Presidents a little slack when it comes to these things because they have two burdens that the rest of us do not. Information and the responsibility to act on that information.

Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#72
post #53
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If theres ever a time to do the right thing, it's in the President's second term: it's all downhill, what the pundits say doesn't matter to re-electability, since there is none (unless you plan on going to another office later on...)

> (unless you plan on going to another office later on...) Just curious, has a president ever done that?

Famously, John Quincy Adams served in the House for nine terms (17 years) after his single term as president, where he spent most of his time fighting to abolish slavery.

Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#73
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> If voters only knew that campaign promises are a signal, along with past actions and a lot of other signals! You might mention that to the journalist who wrote the linked article, since he appears to believe that the change of opinion is remarkable.

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Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#74
Sigh, I guess this is nothing new. Obama's the ultimate (in my mind) say one thing, do another. At least with Bush we knew he was just a bad guy that didn't give a shit for anything other that war, greedy buddies, and a good walk on the ranch.

With Obama, yah, he came in as the 'outsider' (typical of all candidates I suppose) with all these things he would 'Change' (Shepard Fairey anyone?). But alas, it's been one disappointment after another. Net neutrality, spying, real universal healthcare, not going after politicians of the Bush area that blatantly broke all kinds of laws, etc. All a sham.

It's playing out like a sci-fi story where anyone can be an enemy of the state, just choose your own adventure: leaker, no fly list, dissident, downloader, photographer/videographer; the list goes on and one.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised as this isn't really a democracy anymore. Every law, decision pretty much has to have some 'but what about business/economy?' question. Excessive lobbying makes sure these decisions/rules will never change short of revolution. The fact that corporations are 'people' and that they have no donation limits anymore, pretty much ends what the founding fathers fought for - we the people.

The message of the 21st century america: get rich. Get above the law and above the fold of the 99%. Go where the rules don't apply to you. Go where you make the rules for everyone else.

Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#76
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> If voters only knew that campaign promises are a signal, along with past actions and a lot of other signals! You might mention that to the journalist who wrote the linked article, since he appears to believe that the change of opinion is remarkable.

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Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#77
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is fascinating how people lay blame. The most common thing I see is my fellow Americans blaming politicians, bankers, school teachers, lobbyists, cops, unions, almost anyone... except themselves. The truth is, the American people are the problem, and they've spent the last few decades doing everything possible to avoid personal responsibility for the shape of the country.

To be fair, the American people are and have been the most heavily propagandized people on Earth. I sympathize with your desire to tell people to step up and take personal responsibility, but the truth is that many people can't even think straight. Look at how many people consistently vote against their own interests, identify with their oppressors, etc.

The most heavily propagandized people on Earth?

How about North Koreans? How about Germans post-WW1? How about Europeans with their incredibly lax immigration policies and superiority complex? How about the Chinese? How about the various Arab peoples with their autocrats and dictators?

Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#78
My heart sunk when Obama won the election the first time; not because I wanted McCain to win, or that I had any actual hope that one of the third-parties could win; but because everyone was so happy.

I was in Burlington, VT; about as liberal a town as you will find in the USA; and there was a strong anti-war movement. That anti-war movement bought Obama's promises hook-line-and-sinker and the same people that were out holding signs and going to rallies were canvasing for Obama. There was a march through the streets when the counting was done; people cheered as if we were finally turning a new leaf.

I hope, so deeply, that people will have learned their lesson; that, if some politician you have never heard of suddenly starts getting a ton of press and magically enters your consciousness; he is being tapped by big players to do so. Obama, more than any other public figure in the last twenty years is proof positive that there does indeed exist a shadowy cartel that are fucking with us for power.

If you believe Obama started out pure-at-heart and was 'corrupted' after becoming president; you are naive beyond all comprehension. Remember early, early when Obama was asked about marijuana? One of the easiest, most obvious blatantly fucked up policies our government carries out.. something that every single non-political marginally liberal person is absolutely crystal clear on should be legal for adults: he laughs derisively like it's a terrible idea.

Why? What is it about Obama being so full of hope and change and feel-goody liberalness that makes him laugh at marijuana? Talk to 50 non politician democrats and you will find 49 think it's obvious to legalize marijuana. But talk to 50 politician democrats, and you will find maybe half of them. The higher up you go, the less likely they are to be pro legalization. Why? Because their interests aren't yours.

If you think that there will be ever be a 'main stream' candidate that will represent your interests over the 'shadowy cartel' of government interest and lobbyists, you are sorely mistaken; and we all pay the price.

Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#79
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not current and it's not a crisis. It's working exactly how it was designed to work. We changed, not them. The Internet disrupted the popular perception of democracy by creating a massive global communication channel that is not under the control of the people in power.

> a massive global communication channel that is not under the control of the people in power. They're working their hardest to correct that horrible mistake.

Net neutrality isn't dead because the people asked for it

Re: Obama’s Path From Critic to Overseer of Spying

#80

What I'd really like to know is what process does the President-elect endure that turns him into an alien lizard from hell? I mean, seriously .. its like black and white with Obama. Pre-Presidentiality, Obama was real. After-President'ness, he's become some obscure caricature of all other Presidents who came before him.. So is there some sort of secret Presidential chamber that all the past Presidents get to donate t…

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