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Amusing ourselves to death

onthepathofknowledge.wordpress.com

71–80 of 126 posts

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#71

I don't think it's off-base to say that this is an attack on the current state of society - the oft-repeated wail that capitalism and the opportunities it has brought (including technology) has made us all a despicable group of hedonistic thrill seekers. This is universally construed as a bad thing. I have problems with this. In order to decide that something is bad, we need to have an idea of what is good. Where doe…

How's this?

There's a difference between what we want and what we enjoy. You see this most clearly in drug addicts - no, in compulsive gamblers: they desperately want their fix, but aren't any happier when they're doing it. But the same effect is in play for all of us, in more subtle form. You can find it in people who are trying to write: they enjoy writing, but they don't want to do it, have to force themselves to start.

There's a pattern in this. People enjoy improving themselves, enjoy learning even - but most people don't want it. Strikingly, if you have people make the choice for their future selves, they prefer the self-improvement option; if you offer someone a choice between, say, a ticket to a museum exhibition, or a couple of free drinks (at equal price), in three months' time, most will choose the exhibition. But if you give them the choice for tonight, they'll take the drinks - and when choosing in their own lives, that's what they tend to prefer. Even if they're going to enjoy them less.

So the best way to make people happy isn't just to give them what they ask for. A paternalistic intervention where you, say, banned certain kinds of entertainment, and funded others, might well result in people living lives they were happier with than the lives they would have chosen for themselves.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#72
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think only about creating content, I think you have a very good argument. Historically, not everybody was fit/interested in creating. However, the underlying theme in these books seems to be one of freedom and our destiny. I don't think they focus much on creation but more on assessing reality and being able to change it. In the past, at least in my 3rd world country, people were much more interesting in polit…

> In the past, at least in my 3rd world country, people were much more interesting in politics, health, education, etc. I've been thinking about this too, but I can't help but wonder if the higher interest in "politics, health, education, etc." wasn't just mindless distraction in disguise. I grew up in a developing nation where it appeared that people were more engaged with these sorts of things, but it every discuss…

It's my opinion (not completely fundamented) that people engage more on aspects that they can change in some way. If they have no hope of changing anything in politics, for example, it feels no better than watching sports, so people flock to the later.

There were quite a lot of examples (all over the world) lately of people protesting about politics that couldn't even decide what they wanted.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#73
post #58
post #55

Lately I have kept repeating to myself: You can either spend your time consuming or you can spend your time creating. I have always felt guilty deep inside when watching something and not learning anything from it, I try to find that one thing, that small part of philosophy in a television series and use it as a motivation to watch (like the line: "We are the universe trying to figure itself out" and the stuff about…

"I make lego contraptions with my son, I make leds blink with Python on my RPi(s)." - just a different type of consumption. Unless you are building something conceptually new.

But it still qualifies as learning something new. Over time I'm building the basis for building something conceptually new.

Perhaps this feeling is difficult to put in words, it feels very significant to me.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#74
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in BNW aren't happy per se. Anyone with a desire to do anything outside of the accepted norm is outcast. They have no freedom. They only really have the illusion of happiness. Whether that's enough is the fundamental question the book asks.

Hmm, it's been a while and I don't remember that. Who was cast out?

The protagonist.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#75

Now we have indications of the worst of both the Huxleyan and Orwellian dystopias: an Internet designed to exacerbate the proclivity toward hyperbolic discounting of the future, and runaway surveillance on a planetary scale.

yeah, I agree that we have signals of both. It's like the two guard rails of our runaway towards World State

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#76
In that it relates to information glut causing lost focus/awareness, this reminds me of the curse of the hyperlink in Wikipedia. I can start off reading about the early history of the Chevy 350 and end up reading about the Heaven's Gate cult an hour and a half later, wondering what the hell I sat down to do in the first place.

I've come to learn that recording goals/making lists is key to being productive when there's so much other stuff vying for my attention and trying to throw me off course. I used to think I could just keep everything in my head, but that's just not worked.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice stance! But isn't this apologetic thinking a pattern applicable on pretty much any order of things? "It can be worse" and "don't ask too much from your high-horse" are not the principles I choose to follow nor recommend to others. I agree that the world (at least in the most part) changed for the better from "back in the day" but I believe that it was thanks to that kind of people that use to sit on high horses…

Thanks! I have answered your question in my own mind many times. I want to live in a world where there is true freedom. I want a purer form of capitalism with heavy reductions in current government control that inhibits the ability of us all to do things today. I want them to live in a world where the very concept that one person or group of people enforces control over others is both alien and absurd, and certainly…

> I want them to live in a world where the very concept that one person or group of people enforces control over others is both alien and absurd,

I'll bite. How exactly is your "freer version" of capitalism going to achieve this, where, by default, a group of stockholders, managers and producers will have tremendous influence on availability, pricing, selection and stock, whereas no safeguards exist against abuse of these powers?

I know I've cited it here before, but this is essentially what the concept of the culture industry describes, were all your freedom is only possible within the pre-chosen, pre-selected limits of production, i.e. you get to choose "freely" between all of the things others allow you to choose between.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#78

I don't think it's off-base to say that this is an attack on the current state of society - the oft-repeated wail that capitalism and the opportunities it has brought (including technology) has made us all a despicable group of hedonistic thrill seekers. This is universally construed as a bad thing. I have problems with this. In order to decide that something is bad, we need to have an idea of what is good. Where doe…

I seached your entire comment for something relevant to the excerpt that was posted and came up empty-handed. What, exactly, does anything you've said have to do with entertainment facilitating oppression?

> The difference is that instead of making use of all things available in the world to please you, you've chosen to spend your time sat on your high horse looking down on them, wishing they were different, so that the view from up there was a little nicer.

I'm utterly baffled. Where was anything remotely like this mentioned?

> I have an IQ in the top 0.001%, am relatively wealthy, relatively well educated, and have a bizarrely diverse skillset. I play Call of Duty and enjoy life's trivialities much more than I paint or talk philosophy.

This clarifies things a little bit. In your eagerness to impress everyone, you lost sight of the topic entirely.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#79
post #39
post #3

What made Brave New World far more interesting to me than 1984 is that the bad guys in 1984 are really clearly bad guys who hide behind an impossibly thin veneer of public mindedness in order to live exactly as grandly as they want whereas in Brave New World the man at the top truly believes that he is a force for good in the world. His life is not a selfish one, not in the same way, he just believes that most people…

I agree, 1984 always seemed a bit 'Lord of the Rings' to me, with the dark lords scheming in their towers. Huxley presented a future in which the ruling class knows what the lower classes need to be happy, and set that up nicely. Everyone wins!

Actually they create a lower class by adding alcohol into their incubation chambers. The rich/smart make them stupid. They make them cheap laborers like a dictator keeping the value of a currency low with respect to other countries.

Re: Amusing ourselves to death

#80
post #24

So here's a question that has been on my mind for a while. I regularly read articles on some aspect of our society that is distressing. Articles such as this one, as well as articles on 'consuming devices killing creativity', 'bite-sized articles keeping us from reading bigger material like books', 'our school system turning us into automatons', and so on. While I find myself agreeing with some of these articles base…

I'm currently living for a few month in the country side. People home are filled with stuff they had done by hand. In the past, instead of getting bored, people sewed, diy various stuff, made beer/wine/alcohol/...

Younger generation in the same village have more time thanks to all the benefit of modern life. They spend that extra time watching TV though.

No sure if there is a conclusion in there considering all other variables, but there is a visible effect.

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