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Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

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Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#71

Post by mariusz79 »

NAFV_P wrote: post #48
mariusz79 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So yes, let's not do anything and blame stuff on some lame stuff like lack of time.

So yes, let's not do anything and blame stuff on some lame stuff like lack of time. Hmm, no... let's not do anything until we can rationalise the problem. On average I spend around four to five hours a day teaching myself programming, that amount of time is the main reason I can learn it effectively. Along with the commitment of two part time jobs (one of them being voluntary), an accountancy course, searching for ne…

So you admit that somehow you're able to find few hours a day volunteer. While you may not have enough time to contribute to os projects at this moment, it's simply because you have different priorities,and prefer to spend that time doing other activities. "Lack of time" excuse is simply that - an excuse. Instead of saying "I lack time to contribute to do X", people should be saying - "I want to spend my time doing Y instead of X".

We all have a limited amount of time to spend on our hobbies, work and the family. We will never have enough time to do all that we would like to do - that is obvious.. B

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#72

Post by sergiotapia »

steveklabnik wrote: post #64
jbdurruti wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I specifically did not accuse them of racism You're sure you didn't do exactly that to an audience of about 12K followers on Twitter? https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/409697629321195520

I do not think they are racist. I think they said something that sounds like they're racist.

That is just so low and slimy of you. Yikes.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#73

Post by goggles99 »

poppysan wrote: post #51
goggles99 wrote: post #10

> One of the spaces you might think would be a gateway for developers of color to enter the industry is through open source software development. You don't have to know somebody or have a degree in software engineering or get hired to participate in an open-source project. You can jump right in and start writing some code. This sounds like the author is resigned to the fact that colored people don't go to college. Is…

Except for the "colored people" comment I wholly agree with your take. As a black guy, there is little real understanding of the lack of barriers to becoming a programmer. This alone holds a lot of minorities back, without adding the myriad of other non tech related barriers. Stories such as this one seeks to help, but dont unfortunatly.

Thanks for the reply. I meant no offense. The article uses the words people of color several times. I fail to see how using people of color and colored people are different. Sorry if this hurt your feelings.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#74

Post by michalu »

knowitall wrote: post #41
michalu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am white, but my father watched TV most of his time and never worked on anything and growing up in such environment so did I. If you grow up in an short-term gratification environment it's much harder to stay with problems long enough to solve them and thus you end up giving up on many hobbies sooner. My father was probably just lazy or resigned due to constant worrying about economic situation but I can imagine th…

That may be so, but then it wouldn't be the fault of discrimination.

Sure, nor am I saying it is.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#75

Post by NAFV_P »

mariusz79 wrote: post #71
NAFV_P wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So yes, let's not do anything and blame stuff on some lame stuff like lack of time. Hmm, no... let's not do anything until we can rationalise the problem. On average I spend around four to five hours a day teaching myself programming, that amount of time is the main reason I can learn it effectively. Along with the commitment of two part time jobs (one of them being voluntary), an accountancy course, searching for ne…

So you admit that somehow you're able to find few hours a day volunteer. While you may not have enough time to contribute to os projects at this moment, it's simply because you have different priorities,and prefer to spend that time doing other activities. "Lack of time" excuse is simply that - an excuse. Instead of saying "I lack time to contribute to do X", people should be saying - "I want to spend my time doing Y…

So you admit that somehow you're able to find few hours a day volunteer. This is a necessity, otherwise a potential employer will assume I'm lazy and apathetic.

While you may not have enough time to contribute to os projects at this moment, it's simply because you have different priorities,and prefer to spend that time doing other activities. It's not the time I lack, it is the expertise, which should improve with more practise. Preferences are different from priorities, my preference would be to write C code (and other languages) for most of the day. My priorities are to get a full time minimum wage job, since that is basically a realistic goal for me. One of the reasons I am doing an accountancy course is that I couldn't get sufficient funding for a course in computing, and this is because I cannot get a full time minimum wage job to pay for said computing course. Sound familiar? In CS this is related to bootstrapping.

Also, my paid job is working as a tree surgeon. One of the most dangerous jobs in the UK, as well as back breaking. I'm amazed I have enough energy to code when I get home.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#76

Post by MaulingMonkey »

mariusz79 wrote: post #31
MaulingMonkey wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you can still squeeze in two-three hours a week to do some os dev is a really lame excuse for working that hard; there is more to life than work. And there are those with more time obligations than what you've listed on top of struggling to make ends meet. Not everyone, granted -- and for some, lack of time will indeed be a lame excuse -- but it sounds like you're generalizing to everyone.

Lack of time is a lame excuse. Always. I often use it, but I'm not lying to myself, blaming stuff on something else. It's just an excuse. There is 24 hours in a day. If you sleep for 8 hours like I do, you still have time for 8 hours of work, and spend 3 hours with your kids, you still have 5 hours to do something productive. Even if you waste 3 hours on stuff like eating, commuting or watching television you still h…

> 8 hours of work

So "only" one full time job with no overtime... but you've already said yourself you have more than that, with school and the startup?

> Even if you waste 3 hours on stuff like eating, commuting

I've had commutes which eat up more time than that on their own on a good day! And heck, I have a coworker who has a longer commute now than mine was!

Lets try the math again: Two full time jobs trying to make ends meet. I hear this is a thing that happens sometimes. Even the stereotypical easy mode "well off white man" runs into this sometimes with mandatory 80+ hour work week crunches at his programming job and is foolish enough to go along with it.

8 hours of sleep + 8 hours of job 1 + 8 hours of job 2 (or mandatory overtime.) We've already used up all 24 hours of every weekday before getting into commutes, eating, or grocery shopping! There's only the 32 hours of the weekend left (2x(24-8))

Let's give this unfortunate person a commute only as long as that coworker of mine... this seems generous considering my coworker only commutes to one job. ~20 hours / week. 12 hours remaining (32-20.)

They prepare and scarf down all three meals a day in 20 minutes each (I would choke on my food frequently at those speeds.) 5 hours remaining (12 - 7x3/3.) Grocery shopping takes me about an hour a week without clipping coupons or looking for deals: 4 hours. 9 minutes to shower, brush teeth, and use the restroom a day: 3 hours left.

Lets be generous and assume they don't have to fill up the tank (they take the bus?), pay the bills (they're all autopaid?), take out the trash, do the laundry, or take care of a single other chore. Their business is finally out of the way!

They have 3 hours left out of their entire week, including weekends, to spend with their friends, family, or FOSS before they need to start sacrificing sleep. If this person says they lack the time to work on FOSS, is that a lame excuse?

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#77

Post by knowitall »

jere wrote: post #36

I love all the commenters in uproar: this can't be racism!!! Notice that the word "racism" was used in the article 0 times. >[Open source software] contribution takes time; I don't think anyone would contest that. Getting familiar with a project, finding out where you can fit into it, reading and responding to issues, testing and submitting patches, writing documentation. All of that requires a good deal of time. >Ma…

"marginalized" implies discrimination

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#78

Post by knowitall »

steveklabnik wrote: post #52
sergiotapia wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because: a) They have never met the speaker personally. b) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_perception It has --nothing-- to do with being racist.

> a) They have never met the speaker personally. Yes, this is "We met earlier in the day, I'm saying hello again." Or, like I said, a waiter that over the course of a multi-hour dinner and drinks, continually confuses the two. (EDIT: Whoops, when revising, I apparently deleted that story. I've seen this too.) Furthermore, it doesn't happen with other people, at least not to the same degree. People even say "whoops, I…

Still, it's not racism, just the way the human visual system works. What do you think is racist about it? "People don't even care enough to remember the name"? That is not what is going on at all. If they wouldn't care, why would they talk to them at all?

Who knows, perhaps they even have an advantage because people actually remember them. They only get their names mixed up sometimes - other people are simply forgotten completely. How often do you forget the name of people you have just been introduced to?

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#79

Post by knowitall »

steveklabnik wrote: post #43
sergiotapia wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about: "It's a sad joke Rubyconf attendees yearly confuse @bryanl and @daksis with each other, but it's happened at every Rubyconf i've been too (which is granted 3 but it's there)."? I don't think there's anything racist about that if it's an honest mistake the audience makes. Or did you mean to say the actual presenters announce them by the wrong name?

I'm curious, why would it be bad if the organizers of a conference made that mistake, but it's not bad if the attendees do? And yes, he means that people walk up to Randall and say "oh hey, Brian!" and vice versa. Really, really often. Sometimes repeatedly. They're different heights, they don't even look like each other at all. They're just usually the only two black guys there. It happens at more than just Ruby conf…

And what about that is racist in your opinion?

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#80

Post by V-2 »

"Marginalized people in tech — women, people of color, people with disabilities, LGBTQ people, and others — have less free time for a few major reasons: dependent care, domestic work and errands, and pay inequity."

Why do LGTBQ people spend more time on domestic work and errands?

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