Before someone makes the inevitable "Why are they spending money on this instead of fixing poverty?" argument: The whole Mars mission costs about as much as making four Bollywood movies. http://www.firstpost.com/india/ten-price-tags-to-put-isro-ma...
Both Bollywood and Mangalyan are a distraction from the core issues, poverty being one of them. Why do people react to criticism that is inevitable for such a mission? In my opinion, space probe to Mars is a good idea for space engineers and for the idea of adventure, it should be nurtured. But the moment the Indian Government a$$holes (who have eaten up more than 10000X that amount which a Mangalyan costs) and their…
Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
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Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Worth mentioning: if you would have lived in India, hearing the same story about USA NASA Mars rover landing, you would have said: "Why are they spending time on this instead of fixing 14 trillion dollar debt?" Just a matter of point of view.
Why would they care about US government debt? Nothing about government debt is detrimental to the human condition.
Even better, read entire wiki article. Can you make same statement again?
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both Bollywood and Mangalyan are a distraction from the core issues, poverty being one of them. Why do people react to criticism that is inevitable for such a mission? In my opinion, space probe to Mars is a good idea for space engineers and for the idea of adventure, it should be nurtured. But the moment the Indian Government a$$holes (who have eaten up more than 10000X that amount which a Mangalyan costs) and their…
What people like you don't understand is that this is one of the ways of combating poverty. You can't ask people to just eat, reproduce and die, living just above the poverty line. That is worse than poverty.
> You can't ask people to just eat, reproduce and die, living just above the poverty line. That is worse than poverty.
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
What people like you don't understand is that this is one of the ways of combating poverty. You can't ask people to just eat, reproduce and die, living just above the poverty line. That is worse than poverty.
What jingoistic people like you don't understand is that the ability to tolerate criticism is equally important. > You can't ask people to just eat, reproduce and die, living just above the poverty line. That is worse than poverty.
Don't you realize the same thing can be said about you :)
I criticized your criticism and you went all "jingoistic nut" on me. Sigh.
The problem is for any good action X that any government does as long as it has any side effect other than getting people out of poverty, it would get criticized as unnecessary. That leaves out only giving money to people directly.
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
What jingoistic people like you don't understand is that the ability to tolerate criticism is equally important. > You can't ask people to just eat, reproduce and die, living just above the poverty line. That is worse than poverty.
> What jingoistic people like you don't understand is that the ability to tolerate criticism is equally important. Don't you realize the same thing can be said about you :) I criticized your criticism and you went all "jingoistic nut" on me. Sigh. The problem is for any good action X that any government does as long as it has any side effect other than getting people out of poverty, it would get criticized as unneces…
> You can't ask people to just eat, reproduce and die, living just above the poverty line. That is worse than poverty.
What do those line mean? Who asked people to just eat, reproduce and die? How is something worse or better than poverty I do not know.
> it would get criticized as unnecessary. That leaves out only giving money to people directly.
No where in the parent comment or on this complete conversation it has been said that expenditure on Mangalyaan is unnecessary or wasteful. In fact it is the opposite that I said on the parent comment. Where did you read this?
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#76Congratulations to ISRO. I was up all night following ISRO's updates :) Mission homepage: http://www.isro.org/mars/home.aspx Here are some pics from ISTRAC (ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network) that was looking over the Trans Mars Injection, and the spacecraft itself: http://www.isro.org/mars/momimg.aspx Here's a color picture of Earth captured by MOM last week: http://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25/Imagegallery/m…
I saw a reference to the [interplanetary transport network]( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Networ... ) sometime back, and wanted to confirm if that is the only/best way to travel between planets and is that what the MOM is doing, i.e. it has entered into one of those paths where it does not need to spend any energy till it reaches nearby Mars.
Note that even a standard Hohmann doesn't need to spend any fuel until arrival (aside from minor course corrections). But with the ITN, it's potentially cheaper to achieve certain chaotic trajectories than it is to change the orbit enough for a Hohmann.
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#77Before someone makes the inevitable "Why are they spending money on this instead of fixing poverty?" argument: The whole Mars mission costs about as much as making four Bollywood movies. http://www.firstpost.com/india/ten-price-tags-to-put-isro-ma...
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What jingoistic people like you don't understand is that the ability to tolerate criticism is equally important. Don't you realize the same thing can be said about you :) I criticized your criticism and you went all "jingoistic nut" on me. Sigh. The problem is for any good action X that any government does as long as it has any side effect other than getting people out of poverty, it would get criticized as unneces…
No, I just pointed out the jingoism evident from this line: > You can't ask people to just eat, reproduce and die, living just above the poverty line. That is worse than poverty. What do those line mean? Who asked people to just eat, reproduce and die? How is something worse or better than poverty I do not know. > it would get criticized as unnecessary. That leaves out only giving money to people directly. No where i…
If you can't understand that, I don't know what to say. Ask yourself this: why should poverty be reduced? The same rationale can be applied to why we need "space wizardry."
> No where in the parent comment or on this complete conversation it has been said that expenditure on Mangalyaan is unnecessary or wasteful.
How about this:
> No space wizardry, just basic engineering.
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#79Before someone makes the inevitable "Why are they spending money on this instead of fixing poverty?" argument: The whole Mars mission costs about as much as making four Bollywood movies. http://www.firstpost.com/india/ten-price-tags-to-put-isro-ma...
Both Bollywood and Mangalyan are a distraction from the core issues, poverty being one of them. Why do people react to criticism that is inevitable for such a mission? In my opinion, space probe to Mars is a good idea for space engineers and for the idea of adventure, it should be nurtured. But the moment the Indian Government a$$holes (who have eaten up more than 10000X that amount which a Mangalyan costs) and their…
Re: Mangalyaan, India's Mars Orbiter, has successfully commenced its journey to Mars
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both Bollywood and Mangalyan are a distraction from the core issues, poverty being one of them. Why do people react to criticism that is inevitable for such a mission? In my opinion, space probe to Mars is a good idea for space engineers and for the idea of adventure, it should be nurtured. But the moment the Indian Government a$$holes (who have eaten up more than 10000X that amount which a Mangalyan costs) and their…
There are two India's now. The 100 million upwardly mobile middle and richer class living in walled inner cities and the 900 million+ poor and desperate people who need all kinds of poverty alleviation that the government can provide. The 100 million class wants better infrastructure, more tech jobs, open and corruption free democracy, space programs and more and they'll(we'll) get some of it. The rest cannot be help…
Last when I was working near a village in central India near Uttar Pradesh/Madhya Pradesh border the estimate was a little under 4% (which is huge given the absolute numbers). I kind of believe that over 90% bulk might still be within the rural consideration, but I could be wrong. The electorate interest and its outcome seems to indicate that bulk of rural India is still where it was.
About 15 years ago, rural migration from the state of Orissa and Uttar Pradesh was pegged at less than 1%. So it is not out of context to consider here that the average speed of travel within the country and connectivity by rail and road has improved by factor of 4 in the last 15 years.
This is the rural progress and implementation of ordinary technology, that we easily miss out on, that has brought about rural migration that we're talking about here. It has sparked ambition in the poor which now aspires for a better life in the suburban cachement of Indian cities.
Leads to concluding that it is the gap between the rich and poor that leads to criticism and praise of space programs like Mangalyan. The '100 million India' who have the gift of being in the elite 100 million should take a note of this gap. And not be perturbed by criticism of technical feats like the Mangalyan.
The benefit of ISRO space program (though it has strategic pitfalls too) would surely reach the balance 900 million poor eventually, but that is in future. Immediate priority should be (and thankfully is) rural tech because that keeps the gap between rich and poor in control, and prevents volatility and conflict by keeping the sense of belongingness among the desperate poor.
That's what I think, but I may be removed from reality given that I am off coast now.