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Why GitHub is not your CV

blog.jcoglan.com

71–80 of 135 posts

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand this is a fact, but how this can be used against Github as a resumé or against OSS on your free time, I have a hard time seeing that. It comes off as incredibly stupid. I really don't think anyone is saying not to do OSS on your free time. That there is a greater lack of diversity in OSS than in software engineering as a profession suggests that whatever it is that keeps minorities out of software engi…

If you are working with the same technology stack we work you will fix bugs and implement new features in your PAID time, not in your free time. This is what we are looking for in your github profile. If you don't have it, may be you are fit for the work, but clearly you are not playing the same game yet.

I use Symfony at work. I would love to contribute some of the patches and helpers I have written to Symfony, or release them as an independent bundle, but (a) I'm the only programmer on the project so I don't really have time, and (b) my company doesn't really do OSS, so I would need to explain all this to our legal department before I could get authorization to release it.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#72
I got my current job precisely because of what I have on Github. I was never asked for a CV. The people in that company were already using some of my OSS libraries before I arrived.

Today someone told me to review someone else's CV. My last comment was: "This CV does not mention a github account. This either means that this person does not have it or that he doesn't think of it as relevant enough to be on his CV". It was not a deciding factor, but it was listed on the "cons".

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#73
Two different kinds of open source projects are relevant to a resume. Group projects, and individual projects. A hiring manager will want to see both. If you only have an individual project, it's still better than nothing, and there is no color/gender/economic barrier to just writing code for yourself and uploading it to GitHub.

I had joined several group projects, and started one of my own, back when I was first getting into the job market. It helped a lot to tell any employer that you had been fiddling with this new-fangled "Linux" and "Apache" and "MySQL" stuff for years, versus the older Unix guys who had been using the same industry tech for 10 years. Really, open source was just like a new fad to older hiring types, and knowing something about it meant you had a different mindset.

But now everybody uses GitHub and it means jack shit.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#74

I disagree with this article completely. I'm a woman and a software developer and I think my Github is very valuable as a portfolio to me. Before I used Github, if I wanted some of my code to get shown off, I would make a blog post about it and call out specific chunks while linking to a ZIP of the whole thing. If a potential employer wanted to see samples of my code, they'd have to find my blog and dig through its a…

You either missed the point, or do not think it's a problem. > determine if a candidate cares enough to code on their own Which he is arguing that you are not a bad developer for doing other things outside of work. The vast majority of people need to not code to regenerate. I can use myself as anecdotal evidence: I'm the goto guy when it's particular difficult to solve a bug, when it's a new framework, or when the te…

> The vast majority of people need to not code to regenerate.

Citation needed. It seems to me that the majority of people don't.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#75
Actually, GitHub is just a supplemental CV. A potentially positive indicator, that among many others (including a CV itself) will be part of the body of work to determine a candidate's qualifications.

Those in hiring positions need to use various indicators of what would make someone a good hire. For most of history in the tech world, this simply meant a standard resume/CV, followed by a phone screen and then an interview where the candidate may be asked whatever questions are deemed relevant by the interviewer. Could be tests, exercises, etc - depends on who you were talking to.

Fast forward to today, where we have more ways that a candidate may show 'indicators' of talent. What about participation in user groups and meetups? Anyone can go to these things, but people who choose to go to them may have a bit more curiosity or interest (and admittedly free time) than those that don't, and that curiosity often goes hand in hand with talent. Not always, but again it is one indicator.

A healthy Stack Overflow reputation score might be another indicator. People who know nothing about programming probably won't be able to rake up major points there.

What if someone wrote a book about a technology? Another indicator probably, and if the book became a best-seller that would be even a stronger indicator since others are judging the material as worthy of their money.

As the author points out, all of these things take time, and many in the industry don't have that kind of free time. Understood.

Experience working at a known entity with a high barrier to entry is another indicator. We know that if someone passed the grueling interview process at certain firms, chances are they will get past our process as well. Another positive indicator.

There will also be some false positives. Candidates that belong to several meetups and have very active GitHubs may not be able to code.

Someone who has never heard of GitHub (or say Node.js or Mongo or whatever may be current and newsworthy at the time) will probably be given a negative indicator Would you consider hiring someone who had never heard of these things? Perhaps not.

Candidates without families that we might expect to have more free time may not choose to spend it at meetups and building GitHub repos either. I don't think we should immediately assume that they are less qualified than the ones that do, but I don't think any will assume they are more qualified.

The author says "you can't judge code without talking to its author". Perhaps you can, but I don't think anybody is necessarily suggesting that you should. No one is hiring candidates based on their GitHub activity alone without interviews, just like no one is hiring anyone based on their CV alone without interviews.

Can we just agree that all of these positive indicators are just indicators? As long as we don't use the absence of them as a negative indicator (as a measure of fairness to those who lack the time or desire), we are not doing anyone a disservice.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#76

> The demographic make-up of open source contributors is even more skewed toward white men than the software industry is What the fuck am I reading? Is this asshole author trying to inject racism into something that is inherently race-, age-, gender-, wealth- and location-agnostic? Github doesn't care who you are, what you code or in what language you code it. And yet here we are with a dumbfuck author who, for the s…

If you think the issue is about what Github "cares" about, you missed the point entirely.

The point is that those who have the free time and opportunity to contribute to OSS projects are more likely to be of some means. Given the economic realities of this country, those with some means are statistically speaking far more likely to be white males than anything else (which is confirmed by the data).

The conversation that has been occurring recently is about how having a Github profile is now becoming a de-facto must-have because hiring managers are increasingly seeing it as a shortcut filter.

It's great that you would hire someone based on code put up anywhere on the net, but that's not what people are commenting about. People are saying that Github should not become mandatory, for many reasons, among them because you're limiting your pool of candidates to those with some means.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#77
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either missed the point, or do not think it's a problem. > determine if a candidate cares enough to code on their own Which he is arguing that you are not a bad developer for doing other things outside of work. The vast majority of people need to not code to regenerate. I can use myself as anecdotal evidence: I'm the goto guy when it's particular difficult to solve a bug, when it's a new framework, or when the te…

> The vast majority of people need to not code to regenerate. Citation needed. It seems to me that the majority of people don't.

Anecdote here. I feel the same: when I had a job that was 30% coding, I did personal coding on the side. Now that I have a job that is 90% coding, I don't. I only have so much energy for coding, and by the time I get home, although I still have fun ideas that I'd like to do, I just don't have the energy to start writing anymore code. If I forced myself to code continuously, the overall quality of all my code would drop a lot. It's fun, yes, but it's also just too mentally taxing.

I recognize if I was planning to go on the market, though, I'd need to force myself to write some "on the side" code so I'd have a recent portfolio to show. I think it's just part of the expectation, the same way I would have to take time to write cover letters, etc.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#78

I've been able to get through my career without LinkedIn or GitHub accounts as proof of my skills. I've pored my time and energy into the jobs I hold and hadn't gotten inspired to start contributing to OSS until just this week[1], so I have no publicly available proof of my skills. However, I can give in depth descriptions of interesting algorithms and data structures I developed and deployed related to: 1) Motion de…

Recruiter here. I've seen GitHub used in interviews where the interviewer may look at the code before the interview, and then bring up the repo during the interview to discuss it. This is usually to challenge why certain decisions were made, what could have been done differently, etc.

It isn't much different than how a conversation would go after a live coding exercise to review the work, with the exception that the candidate in the case of a prior GitHub work will have had the advantage to clean things up and perhaps has gone through several iterations already.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#79
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nice thing about programming: You don't have to perform in the 99.9 percentile (like Picasso) to make something people want.

are you implying the only worthwhile fine art is the 0.1th percentile?

There's a lot of art out there.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#80

I disagree with this article completely. I'm a woman and a software developer and I think my Github is very valuable as a portfolio to me. Before I used Github, if I wanted some of my code to get shown off, I would make a blog post about it and call out specific chunks while linking to a ZIP of the whole thing. If a potential employer wanted to see samples of my code, they'd have to find my blog and dig through its a…

You either missed the point, or do not think it's a problem. > determine if a candidate cares enough to code on their own Which he is arguing that you are not a bad developer for doing other things outside of work. The vast majority of people need to not code to regenerate. I can use myself as anecdotal evidence: I'm the goto guy when it's particular difficult to solve a bug, when it's a new framework, or when the te…

When you say 'Screening based on a GitHub account', I think it's important to differentiate whether we are screening out those that don't have activity or moving those that do to the front of the line. There is a difference, and I think that difference is somewhat key to the author's article.
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