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Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

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Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#71

Post by sirkneeland »

Geee wrote: post #58
killme wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BB10 got great reviews too, so did WebOS. That in itself doesn't signify success. The ecosystem is the weakness. No apps = no sales.

N9 had more apps at the time than Windows Phone today. Nokia had a large developer base and the Qt development environment for N9 was really good. There was nothing to stop it gaining market share as it was overall a really decent platform/ecosystem. Only thing that killed it was Elop who decided to limit sales to just 23 small countries, and left big markets for their WP launch device, which was horrible at the time…

As someone who loves the N9, I still feel compelled to point out that it is simply false that the N9 had more apps at the time than Windows Phone has today.

There were a lot of Qt developers (still are) and I definitely agree that the N9 was set up to not succeed, and that had a negative effect on the ecosystem.

Although even before feb 11, when Nokia was all-in with Symbian+Qt+Meego, developer interest was lagging behind iOS, Android, and even Windows Phone which was vaporware at the time. Here's one from mid-2010: http://www.appcelerator.com/assets/appcelerator-mobile-devel...

Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#72

Post by sirkneeland »

jgreen10 wrote: post #19

Can someone explain why Elop did a bad job? No one was buying Nokia phones anymore... they are now.

While both your statement and my response are gross oversimplifications, I would point out that when Elop took over, more people were buying Nokias than they are now.

Q3 2010 (when Elop took over): 110.4 million Nokias sold Q3 2013: 64.4 million Nokias sold

Parsing your statement, if when you said "no one was buying Nokia phones" you means "no one [in developed economies] was buying [Nokia high end smartphones]" you'd then be correct.

Pedantic reply is pedantic :)

Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#73

Post by freehunter »

dragontamer wrote: post #39
bentcorner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see them continue on the path that the Lumia 1020 set - premium camera smartphone. I think there's a good niche for them there that is very hard for Apple to get into due to asthetics (a Lumia can have a bump on the back for a large fast lens that would be very unusual for an iPhone).

Case in point: The Lumia 1020 is using Nokia's relatively old technology. The Nokia 808 PureView was released in Feb 2012, yet received very little recognition. All of a sudden, a year later, the Lumia 1020 seems like a "fresh, new" idea. When in fact, Nokia has been marketing this EXACT SAME IDEA for over a year. For better or for worse, the "Windows Phone" brand turns heads. Lumia1020 is sticking with people a lot…

I remember the press going crazy for the 808, with one exception: it ran Symbian. That was the only thing the press didn't like, and that fact kept anyone from seriously recommending it. It was a tech demo, it was a great camera attached to a phone that cost Nokia nothing to build (unlike the Lumia 1020). The 1020 was the real-world version of the 808, the version Nokia wanted people to buy.

Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#74

Post by throwawaykf02 »

Zigurd wrote: post #37
throwawaykf02 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that was bunk in Nokia's case. When they realized that Symbian had to go, they also realized that the vast bulk of the company was organized around that one OS. And if sources are to be believed, most of that deadweight was fiefdoms jealously guarded by entrenched groups, which meant they were not going to be conducive to "pivot" to a new direction. Now they had to shed that humongous deadweight and prod…

Re Skyhook: Google has made no such demand on any OEM. Google demanded Moto not replace Google location services with Skyhook. Many Android phones have shipped with, e.g. Verizon's location services and maps. Based on what has appeared in commerce, you can run, and preload if you are an OEM, any competing service on an Android device. But Google draws the line at denying Google data from their own apps. Seems reasona…

This link, which goes into some detail about the Skyhook lawsuit, paints a starkly different picture:

http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-la...

Google may have allowed Verizon and AT&T maps because, of course, they are the ultimate gatekeepers. But they still demand data for their own services and forbade SkyHook completely. The article lays it all out.

In light of that, your point agrees with mine: Google did not allow denying their apps with data, which sounds reasonable for Google. But for Nokia that would be selling phones that improved the service of a direct competitor. Google certainly forbade SkyHook from getting any data, so very likely Nokia faced the same problem, which would have meant they'd be giving Google data without being able to use it themselves.

Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#75

Post by throwawaykf02 »

Zigurd wrote: post #36
throwawaykf02 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Asha: I hear Asha is doing crazy well in low-end markets. Not sure how Microsoft can leverage it, but I'm sure they are aware of this.

Asha WAS doing well is developing world markets. Asha is now a dying business. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://allaboutwindowsph... Microsoft bought itself another Kin.

Hah, even "something that was selling well" is not a description that could be applied to Kin.

Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#76

Post by basch »

sirkneeland wrote: post #67
basch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Upon the closing of the transaction, Nokia would be restricted from licensing the Nokia brand for use in connection with mobile device sales for 30 months and from using the Nokia brand on Nokia’s own mobile devices until December 31, 2015." Nokia sold Microsoft its production lines, and licensed its patents. Starting in 2016 Nokia can reenter the cell phone market again. Basically Nokia gutted its legacy capital, a…

As a Nokia R&D employee (staying in Nokia), I'm glad other people are starting to get the insane potential of New Nokia (with its retained R&D labs and talent, its mountain of patents, and its newly found mountain of cash--and no longer dividing attention between smartphone improvements and going after "the next big thing") That said, I'm still emotionally bummed at what happened to Nokia in the last few years, and d…

Maybe not inevitable but I prefer this path to following google down the android hole. It's hard to be truly innovative when you let someone else hold the reigns.

Content should be first. Search, maps, news, video editing, messaging (basically everything Apple isn't that google, microsoft, and yahoo are.)

With a top tier software services stack, and exclusive content, it's a lot easier to convince people to latch onto your hardware platform.

Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#77

Post by Zigurd »

throwawaykf02 wrote: post #74
Zigurd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re Skyhook: Google has made no such demand on any OEM. Google demanded Moto not replace Google location services with Skyhook. Many Android phones have shipped with, e.g. Verizon's location services and maps. Based on what has appeared in commerce, you can run, and preload if you are an OEM, any competing service on an Android device. But Google draws the line at denying Google data from their own apps. Seems reasona…

This link, which goes into some detail about the Skyhook lawsuit, paints a starkly different picture: http://www.theverge.com/2011/05/12/google-android-skyhook-la... Google may have allowed Verizon and AT&T maps because, of course, they are the ultimate gatekeepers. But they still demand data for their own services and forbade SkyHook completely. The article lays it all out. In light of that, your point agrees with m…

I have read the available Skyhook litigation documents in detail, and I have worked with multiple location services APIs in Android and other mobile devices. I don't want to argue about every point in detail, but Google isn't demanding location data from other location/mapping/location-services stacks. If you really have you own whole location ecosystem, as Nokia does, Google won't go after you because you could make a good case that is, in fact, anti-competitive in an illegal kind of way. So I do not think "But for Nokia that would be selling phones that improved the service of a direct competitor." is correct. The Skyhook case is about changing the way the Android location APIs work, and those are NOT part of AOSP.

Bottom line, though, if you stepped outside of Google's constraints, like replacing the Android location service internals with Skyhook and keeping the data to yourself, Andy Rubin would personally leave a horse's head in your bed. The article says "Skyhook claims Google uses the threat of incompatibility to act anti-competitively." Which is the less nice way of saying if you don't follow Google's rules, whether or not they are spelled out in any contract, they will make it impossible for you to sell Android-based products with Google's ecosystem. Whether that is actually anti-competitive, is, of course, the subject of that litigation.

One thing Andy Rubin knew is that carriers can be dicks, and being a dick to carriers and their OEM partners, to the point of threatening with losing access to Android products is something he did not feel apologetic about. He learned that at Danger.

It's too bad Skyhook ended up in the middle of that. I have my own stories to tell about OEMs afraid to use interesting technologies because of the AFA, and the way Google used it. Some people think Google's behavior is similar to a case where a mainframe software maker got RICO'ed for bundling.

Re: Nokita: A Plan to Raise Billions and buy out Nokia before Microsoft

#78

Post by davissorenson »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #57
davissorenson wrote: post #3

> On this last point, they talk about leveraging a non-corporate image, like the Dudesons or Madventures, and throw “the largest events, gigs, and parties of human kind”. Well that sounds really sustainable.

Compared to manufacturing costs and the revenues at stake, gigs, events and parties are cheap.

I meant more as a company culture.
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