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Confessions of a Drone Warrior

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Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#71

Post by tshile »

fit2rule wrote: post #57
jread wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the JTAC is usually an enlisted soldier embedded with a ground unit. He is highly trained on ROE and positive ID, and generally has a good first hand perspective on what is happening on the ground. He is responsible for protecting the lives of the unit he is embedded with, and air assets are tasked to support him. From my experience, these are not warmongers, just guys doing their jobs, trying to pr…

Worship war much? Fact is, these drones allow your government to commit heinous crimes against humanity with impunity. If these JTAC's are so great, why the 50 to 1 civilian to 'bad guy' kill ratio?

Pointing out the JTAC's role and its lack of connection to war mongering politicians is not worshiping war.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#72

Post by venomsnake »

TomGullen wrote: post #26

Watching countless documentaries about this war zone I can't help but recall the numerous occasions that IED's are branded as cowardly weapons. Surely on the same scale this sort of thing is the most cowardly weapon of all.

Better live coward with dead enemies than a brave corpse.

The problems is not the cowardly weapons but the ... I don't know how to explain it precisely - the ease and recklessness with which the US army is deployed outside of the US territory.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#73

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

ansgri wrote: post #44
proksoup wrote: post #34

The worst human beings on the planet are the ones: 1) Building the guns/drones 2) Pulling the trigger of the guns/drones 3) Telling others to pull the trigger. No one in that chain is less responsible than the other.

You forgot those who develop technology to enable building better guns and drones.

and the people who grew the coffee beans that help keep focused the people who developed the technology to enable...

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#74

Post by venomsnake »

mtgx wrote: post #13

"Daddy, when I grow up I want to be a drone warrior , too!" I assume this name came from the government/military itself, and GQ just used it without putting much thought into it, or maybe they just wanted to be sensationalist, but I'm becoming increasingly less patient and angry at these sort of Orwellian names. Why a warrior? Why not its true meaning like "drone assassin" or even "drone terrorist". But if you really…

What is the difference between them and the pilots of the bombers over Serbia? Or the battleships missile operators? Or the submarine crews?

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#75

Post by srean »

alan_cx wrote: post #63
hooande wrote: post #48

Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…

"Drones are just like any other tools of war. " No they are not. The are risk free and relatively cheap, meaning its easier to order their use. The easier war is, the easier it is to make war. "The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real" Oh yes it does. There have been plenty of studies that clearly demonstrate this. It is always easier to press a butto…

I agree with you except for the last bit. From the accounts that I have read, I think Bin Laden's chances of surviving the Abbotabad raid was hypothetical at best. He had less than a fraction of a second to make an undeniable gesture of complete surrender in a surprise early morning raid. He could not put down a weapon because he did not have one on him. According to the SEAL who shot him, he was shot twice in the head and then again on his torso as a startled unarmed man waking up to the din. I am not arguing for or against whether he was entitled to a realistic chance, just stating that he didnt and it was by design.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#76

Post by venomsnake »

fit2rule wrote: post #60
rayiner wrote: post #27

This is the future of warfare and it's a good thing. Way better than back when you would firebomb an industrial city or lob cruise missiles at poorly defined targets. No boots on the ground means none of our people at risk and drones are much more precise than bombs. The reactions in this thread demonstrate the classic uneasiness with killing a few people while being okay with killing lots of people. The people compl…

Yet another worshipper in the cult of death that has gripped America. Sorry, but your point of view is absolutely abhorrent to any educated, intelligent, modern persons' point of view. It is not a good thing that people can drive to a strip mall in Americana, spend all day killing people in a video-game like reality, and get away with it with impunity. This is industrialized murder, and your justification is exactly…

No it is a good thing. When you have to be violent it is always better to have the edge. (quote from a special ops friend - in close quarters wins the one with more ammunition)

What you have problem is the ease with which US deploys stuff and not the fact that there are less corpses coming home.

So change Washington. Not the drones.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#77

Post by auctiontheory »

yetanotherphd wrote: post #45
enko wrote: post #17

I couldn't finish this article. It just makes me too angry. Warrior? How dare anyone involved in this dignify themselves with such an honour-laden term. They're just murderers, and the fact they hide behind so many layers of technology just makes it all the more cowardly and despicable.

That is a very odd perspective. Surely the "honour" in being a warrior comes from the morality of the actions they are engaged in, and not whether or not they are personally at risk.

We all engage in moral actions every day. We're not all "honored" by being called "warriors."

Even if a killing seems justified, killing someone is not "more moral" than plenty of other daily activities. What (historically) distinguished the warrior is the personal physical risk he faced. Taking physical risk for good cause has always been honored.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#78

Post by gbags »

hooande wrote: post #48

Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…

> The blame for the cost of war doesn't go to to the weapons or the people who pull the triggers. We're all responsible for the things done in our names,

This is absolute and complete horseshit.

I protest against war. I vote against war. I campaign for candidates who oppose war. I refuse to work for companies that profit from war. War happens anyway.

A soldier surveys his opportunities and realizes he can put money in his pocket from war. He votes for war. He makes fun of protesters. He fights the war. He freely spends lives and money.

Only a completely insane person would claim that the soldier and I are equally culpable. We just aren't. It's repulsive that you'd make such an ignorant and asinine assertion. I'd ask for your reasoning, but it's clear that you excluded your reasoning because there IS no valid, logical, sane underpinning to your argument.

And the comparison with Vietnam is absolutely fucking disgusting. Vietnam was a draft. Modern wars aren't fought by draftees, they're fought by low-talent assholes who think that shooting brown people sounds better than flipping burgers.

p.s. the vietnam vet spitting thing is an urban legend.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#79

Post by rhizome »

hooande wrote: post #48

Drones are just like any other tools of war. The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real, the stakes any lower or the human cost to the operator any cheaper. War is hell because of the horrible decisions that have to be made. Distance doesn't make it any easier. Drones don't kill innocent non-combatants, people do. There are many cases of civilians being…

The fact that the combatant is sitting very far away from the battle doesn't make the killing any less real

It doesn't make it any less real, but it does make it more cowardly.

Some of the commenters on this thread sound like the people who would throw things at veterans returning from vietnam. Have we learned nothing?

Yes we have learned something: it didn't happen.

Re: Confessions of a Drone Warrior

#80

Post by fit2rule »

venomsnake wrote: post #76
fit2rule wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another worshipper in the cult of death that has gripped America. Sorry, but your point of view is absolutely abhorrent to any educated, intelligent, modern persons' point of view. It is not a good thing that people can drive to a strip mall in Americana, spend all day killing people in a video-game like reality, and get away with it with impunity. This is industrialized murder, and your justification is exactly…

No it is a good thing. When you have to be violent it is always better to have the edge. (quote from a special ops friend - in close quarters wins the one with more ammunition) What you have problem is the ease with which US deploys stuff and not the fact that there are less corpses coming home. So change Washington. Not the drones.

When violence is easy, "having to be violent" will be more and more common, until .. eventually .. you arrive at the point of view you espouse: war is okay, as long as its easy.
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