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Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

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Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#71

Post by timmaah »

tlrobinson wrote: post #38

After witnessing his minor meltdown on Twitter the other day I thought to myself celebrities will really need to learn to ignore the trolls. I'm sure Trent will be just the first of many Twitter celebrities to go through this.

I think the majority of celebrities that are established celebrities, will realize they don't need the bs and just stop (like reznor is doing).

It stops being fun for them and it comes down to business. If they are not getting enough out of it to put up with the crap, they will stop or pawn it off on PR people to do it for them.

Same reason Obama and the likes don't watch cable news.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#73

Post by gojomo »

iamelgringo wrote: post #3

One thought after reading this: Troll filtering is a big, wide open market.

This is one reason Facebook is so valuable. It's designed from the start to have a strong 1:1 linking with real names, and shows all of your public actions to your real-life peer group. It's approaching internet scale. It could lock up this market -- at least among forums wanting real-name participation.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#74

Post by gchpaco »

sho wrote: post #29
gaius wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, on the Internet , when AOL got a Usenet gateway. No-one cared when they stayed within AOL, not least because AOL had moderators. The real Internet is not HN, it's not Facebook or Livejournal. It's 4chan and the comments on Youtube. That's what we built, that's the glorious future, the pinnacle of high tech, the global collective consciousness. How proud should we be?

Why the 4chan hate? It is what it is, doesn't pretend to be anything else, and there's a place for it. At its best, 4chan can be great. You can't compare that to YouTube comments at all. 4chan's about lulz, not pure unadulterated stupidity. They're not the same at all.

I'm from the old guard, used to be real thrilled with Usenet. Trolls are The Great Enemy, and 4chan is real big on trolling.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#75

Post by tokenadult »

vaksel wrote: post #10
tdavis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're on a version way past 1... that has been the result for many years now. The second person on the Internet was probably a troll.

I saw this youtube video of an early 90s broadcast about this thing called internet, and they pretty much talked about how great it is to have a civilized conversation, without trolls. So early on it wasn't a problem, my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

I'm old enough to remember that there were trolls on Usenet before AOL built its gateway to Usenet.

I'm pretty sure that verifying the earliest use of "troll" in the sense of this thread and comparing that with the date of AOL's gateway opening would confirm this.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#76

Post by adbachman »

ghshephard wrote: post #4

Is anybody surprised that, with 600K+ followers, many of whom are already self-selected as "edgy" or "alternate" that some small percentage of them wouldn't be absolutely manical raving lunatics? Trent could probably solve some of this with technology and create a self-policing environment, in which a core group of half-sane fans could administrate/police/censor to the betterment of all - There's a reason why Wikiped…

> Trent could probably solve some of this with technology

From the post:

In a closed environment like nin.com a lot of this can be moderated away, or code can be implemented to make it more difficult for troublemakers to persist. It's tedious and feels like wasted energy doing that shit, but some people exist to ruin it for others - and they are the ones who have nothing better to do with their time.

They've done the tech thing, but it's an arms race. I think the point of the "experiment" comment in the third to last paragraph is that the problem doesn't want to be fixed. The coping effort is doing more harm than good, idiots rule.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#77

Post by ThomPete »

froo wrote: post #58
johnyzee wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idiots rule our countries. Why would online be any different? (Not being snide - wherever you look, politicians seem to unfailingly be raping and making a mockery of the democratic system. I may be slightly more cynical than usual as we discussed Berlusconi at lunch today, though). Does anyone have good real-world examples of the the kind of communities we would like to see online? I'd like to hope that degeneration…

Does anyone have good real-world examples of the the kind of communities we would like to see online? Well, I'll give a fairly decent example. I occasionally played tabletop wargames in the past locally and we have a statewide forum dedicated to it. http://www.westgamer.com I've seen disagreements before on the forum, but have never seen anything that would constitute trolling or abusive behaviour. I think this stems…

The Well is fantastic

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#78

Post by whughes »

anigbrowl wrote: post #22
iamelgringo wrote: post #3

One thought after reading this: Troll filtering is a big, wide open market.

I've been thinking about this for a while. What it needs is shareable trust networks, so you can see ratings weighted by the votes of those who you particularly approve of or despise. Attempts at objective moderation just end up creating echo chambers and/or popularity contests. I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this thread is too small to contain...but I am making notes to write it up in some…

Then you'll run the risk of creating echo subchambers in a community, where people who share similar opinions form trust groups and block competing opinions out. Even if you rely on outside connections (friends and such), you'll still be more likely to network with people you agree with.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#79

Post by whughes »

trapper wrote: post #40

Interestingly, the only troll-less social places on the internet are those who are started by, and frequented by a "guru" who everyone respects. I visit a handful of such places for different subject areas and they are completely different than the majority of the internet.

There's an important distinction between a guru and an idol, though. Reznor doesn't seem to fulfill that description; a too-distant figure can turn the respect into something like worship, with the accompanying zealotry.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#80

Post by whughes »

Kadin wrote: post #69
froo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't expect Lionel Ritchie to experience the same thing if he emulated Reznor online. Well, having been on the receiving end of something I thought I'd share my experience. There are raving lunatic fans all around the place, regardless of what genre the artists are in. During the campaign to get Rick Astley voted as Best Act Ever for last years MTV Europe Music Awards, I started receiving large volumes of hat…

> Some sort of centralised system for verified identities online with a simple API that people could plug into their forums/comment systems on blogs. This would not even be particularly hard; the infrastructure already exists in the form of SSL certificate issuance/verification. PGP keysigning is supposed to accomplish the same thing but has never seemed to work as well in my experience. It's a lot easier to just pay…

This must be opt-in, though. I find the idea of a centralized system where totalitarian governments can track their Internet users absolutely terrifying. As Internet usage expands, like cell phone usage has, the technology designers will increasingly have to look at the moral implications of putting something like this in place. Trolls are a small price to pay for the safety anonymity can grant in many cases.
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