Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 172 posts

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#71

Post by fps »

Spooky23 wrote: post #19

This isn't news, and hasn't been hidden. EZ pass readers are plainly visible all over the place, including on the BQE in NYC and other places in NY. They give you an ESD bag to put your transmitter in. As part of 511, state DOTs also purchase cell tower data to estimate speed on highways. My understanding is that is where the Google Maps traffic indicators come from.

> As part of 511, state DOTs also purchase cell tower data to estimate speed on highways. My understanding is that is where the Google Maps traffic indicators come from.

Close, but actually Google gets that data from Android devices that phone home directly to them, not from the cell companies.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#72

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

Avenger42 wrote: post #62
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #29

As many have stated, this isn't news. There are all sorts of good and proper uses of toll-tags that aren't collecting tolls. There has never been any effort to hide that, nor should there be. The thing I have always been disturbed by WRT toll-tags is that toll-collecting entities flatly refuse to sell one that isn't attached to a person or a vehicle. There are opportunities for profit that have been ignored[1], and I…

> There are all sorts of good and proper uses of toll-tags that aren't collecting tolls. There has never been any effort to hide that, nor should there be. That conflicts somewhat with the article: > Notably, the fact that E-ZPasses will be used as a tracking device outside of toll payment, is not disclosed anywhere that I could see in the terms and conditions. I'm fine with you doing whatever you disclose you're goi…

That's the author's experience in NYC. I rarely go there so I cannot refute what he says. But, in Houston, TXDOT and TTI[1] have been on TV and in other media bragging about their sophisticated data collection and how good a job they've done shortening my commute.

http://tti.tamu.edu/

http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/aviinfo/avi-hou.html

>I'm fine with you doing whatever you disclose you're going to be doing, even if it seems crazy like "wherever you are in downtown Manhattan, you won't be able to go two blocks without hitting a reader somewhere", but the key there is the disclosure.

I am happy to see productive uses of technology. But, I'd prefer it if the data were required to be anonymized pretty close to the collection point. I think the gov't should almost always disclose its activities, especially in direct interactions with citizens. I'd like to see things like license plates going away and replaced with the transponder tags, but with the tags also reporting when they are accessed, and by whom.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#73

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

Retric wrote: post #64
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they couldn't because it would be immediately obvious from the camera footage. Photos are always taken, even when a tag is registered.

But nobody looks at that footage 99% of the time. Reolistically the only way to do prepaid tags it to bill the maximum amount as truckers would happily say use a car the first time and then use the rest of the cash on the semi unless they checked every time.

They could sell you a prepaid tag, and you could get change back or reconcile its unpaid balance when you returned it. This could all be accomplished at a vending machine, or at a car-rental counter, or any number of other places.

>But nobody looks at that footage 99% of the time.

A truck can be trivially detected and distinguished from a car. The S/N of the tag detected can then have the proper amount deducted.

Or just put a sign on the vending machine, "Not for Trucks"

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#74

Post by mcantelon »

forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

>I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations.

I'd guess the intelligence use of it is likely more important to the powers that be to risk a backlash against using it to catch speeders.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#75

Post by Avenger42 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #72
Avenger42 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are all sorts of good and proper uses of toll-tags that aren't collecting tolls. There has never been any effort to hide that, nor should there be. That conflicts somewhat with the article: > Notably, the fact that E-ZPasses will be used as a tracking device outside of toll payment, is not disclosed anywhere that I could see in the terms and conditions. I'm fine with you doing whatever you disclose you're goi…

That's the author's experience in NYC. I rarely go there so I cannot refute what he says. But, in Houston, TXDOT and TTI[1] have been on TV and in other media bragging about their sophisticated data collection and how good a job they've done shortening my commute. http://tti.tamu.edu/ http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/aviinfo/avi-hou.html >I'm fine with you doing whatever you disclose you're going to be doing, even…

I don't think we disagree here. I'm also in Houston, and though I haven't read them recently, I'm happy to know that the terms & conditions for my EZ tag properly lay out what they'll use it for. If the New York tags similarly expressed the ability of the companies to use the tags everywhere, I'd be completely in agreement.

> I'd like to see things like [...] the tags also reporting when they are accessed, and by whom.

Agreed; I already get a monthly letter saying "here's every place you went where you were charged a toll". How hard would it be do the same (at least on the website) with all the places your car was tagged-but-not-tolled?

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#76

Post by jlgreco »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #57
diminoten wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you against having your car tracked? You're in public, aren't you? Why do you think you have a right to privacy in public?

What kind of stuff do you buy at stores? Mind if I have a look? I mean, you're in public when you buy the stuff. Please post your checking account and credit card statements in the reply. Thanks.

He uses ATMs in public too right? I also want to know his debit card PIN. What right does he have to privacy?

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#77

Post by alexqgb »

diminoten wrote: post #44
forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

Why are you against having your car tracked? You're in public, aren't you? Why do you think you have a right to privacy in public?

Don't be a idiot. You should know as well as anyone that simply "being in public" actually preserves a large amount of privacy and anonymity. Consider, for, instance, what would happen if any of the countless people you pass by daily decided to follow your every step, stalking you, recording everything you say and do, waiting for you in the street when you got home, then relentlessly pursuing you again when you leave.

You'd have the person arrested for harassment.

In a functioning democracy, it's not the thickness of the doors that prevents them from being kicked in, but the strength of the laws that restrains those who would do the kicking. Likewise, the "reasonable expectation of privacy" is not limited to the narrow range of situations in which violations are physically impossible, but the much broader range of situations in which violations are corrosive enough to be socially and politically unacceptable.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#78

Post by Margaret12 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #66
forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

>I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was never kept a secret in Houston that toll-tags were used to collect data for the real-time traffic map, this system is decades old. http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/aviinfo/avi-tech.html >EZ passes are supposed to be used in one car only so it can't be lack of ability to isolate the user that's stopping it. A car may have more than one user. >For years I…

my buddy's mother-in-law makes $75 every hour on the internet. She has been without a job for seven months but last month her check was $17516 just working on the internet for a few hours. useful source...

http://xurl.es/w2x2a

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#79

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

Avenger42 wrote: post #75
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the author's experience in NYC. I rarely go there so I cannot refute what he says. But, in Houston, TXDOT and TTI[1] have been on TV and in other media bragging about their sophisticated data collection and how good a job they've done shortening my commute. http://tti.tamu.edu/ http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/aviinfo/avi-hou.html >I'm fine with you doing whatever you disclose you're going to be doing, even…

I don't think we disagree here. I'm also in Houston, and though I haven't read them recently, I'm happy to know that the terms & conditions for my EZ tag properly lay out what they'll use it for. If the New York tags similarly expressed the ability of the companies to use the tags everywhere, I'd be completely in agreement. > I'd like to see things like [...] the tags also reporting when they are accessed, and by who…

>I don't think we disagree here.

I wasn't as careful as I should have been in my other post.

>I'm also in Houston, and though I haven't read them recently,

Pshhhbt, me neither!

>I'm happy to know that the terms & conditions for my EZ tag properly lay out what they'll use it for.

That stupid thing is probably as vague and broad as it can be. I based my statements on news reporting I'd seen, and having been on the TXDOT and traffic.tamu.edu websites[1] where the stuff was explained.

[1] In fairness to mortals, that is kind of like the bottom of a filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign outside the door saying "Beware of the Leopard."

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#80

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

jlgreco wrote: post #76
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of stuff do you buy at stores? Mind if I have a look? I mean, you're in public when you buy the stuff. Please post your checking account and credit card statements in the reply. Thanks.

He uses ATMs in public too right? I also want to know his debit card PIN. What right does he have to privacy?

Even if he had that right, why would he want to use it?
Post reply on HN