Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why you should join a big company first

geekwire.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 87 posts

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#71

Post by tptacek »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #66
stephencanon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart, hardworking people (the same people who might succeed with a startup) can absolutely get rich (in the "don't really need to worry about money" sense, not in the "absurd conspicuous consumption" sense) working for $BIGCORP in their 20s.

How, and over what timeframe?

Define a target (say, 1MM), a realistic interest rate, and head over to any compounding growth goal calculator; it'll tell you how much you need to set aside over 10-15 years to hit that target.

To compare meaningfully to startup careers, you need to factor in the premium you pay to work at a startup (in reduced wages) and the very low odds of any given startup making its employee equity liquid.

Generally, the difference between the BigCo path to 1MM and the startup path is that, barring dramatic changes in the nature of our industry (which changes would also confound the startup comparison), the BigCo path is reasonably contingent only on your execution. You can fire on all cylinders in every startup you work at and never end up in the money.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#72

Post by nostrademons »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #66
stephencanon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart, hardworking people (the same people who might succeed with a startup) can absolutely get rich (in the "don't really need to worry about money" sense, not in the "absurd conspicuous consumption" sense) working for $BIGCORP in their 20s.

How, and over what timeframe?

What number do you count as "rich"? I assume you're talking net worth, and not income.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#73

Post by RogerL »

unono wrote: post #57
rybosome wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I thought this was satire, so bizarre was the vitriol against big corp. I work at one of the big "nefarious corporate" companies, and my life is incredibly happy; I'm proud of getting a job here and proud of the work I do. More importantly, I have time and money to travel, play music, live a healthier lifestyle and generally enjoy life outside of (and in addition to) work. Who gives a shit if "The Man" is ge…

I'm not even that concerned about getting rich. It's more about doing exactly what I want, when I want, and making a big impact (in terms of helping people) - without giving the billionaires any more power and money. As Jesus said - It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God. I'm an atheist, but there's a solid truth in that saying. If you can't make…

So, the people you hire, they will be dealing with the devil?

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#74

Post by unono »

VexXtreme wrote: post #70
unono wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even that concerned about getting rich. It's more about doing exactly what I want, when I want, and making a big impact (in terms of helping people) - without giving the billionaires any more power and money. As Jesus said - It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God. I'm an atheist, but there's a solid truth in that saying. If you can't make…

Sorry but I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. Judging by your writing, you sound very young and inexperienced. The definition of employment is trading some kind of value (usually knowledge, skill and labor) for money. When you work for a company, you are doing that trade with your employer, who in turn resells your services to their customers, while taking a cut of the profits. In effect, your employer is a mid…

aah ... I think you should holding off throwing around labels like maturity, that's a bad way of making arguments.

Of course you're using a third party for branding/funding, however, as I mentioned in my original comment, corporations exist to reduce the transaction costs of collaborating and distributing - costs which are greatly reduced with widespread internet access.

This means you can have a 'virtual corporation', wherein you have much more freedom to decide your course of action.

In the end the customers is your boss - true, but you have much more say in what the product is (and this is good or bad, depending how skilled you are and your risk tolerance).

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#75

Post by unono »

rybosome wrote: post #69
unono wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even that concerned about getting rich. It's more about doing exactly what I want, when I want, and making a big impact (in terms of helping people) - without giving the billionaires any more power and money. As Jesus said - It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God. I'm an atheist, but there's a solid truth in that saying. If you can't make…

> It's more about doing exactly what I want, when I want, and making a big impact (in terms of helping people) - without giving the billionaires any more power and money. > ...it's the modern version of dealing with the devil. Hey, I get that bureaucracy sucks. It is an inevitable function of increased size. Have you had experience at any of the big companies you name, though? I don't mean to be challenging, but my v…

I think we're coming from different angles - you're talking about life satisfaction, I'm talking about life purpose.

The startup life might be harder, in the short run, but I think it bestows a grander life purpose because at the minimum you are not helping the already rich get richer.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#76

Post by unono »

RogerL wrote: post #73
unono wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even that concerned about getting rich. It's more about doing exactly what I want, when I want, and making a big impact (in terms of helping people) - without giving the billionaires any more power and money. As Jesus said - It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God. I'm an atheist, but there's a solid truth in that saying. If you can't make…

So, the people you hire, they will be dealing with the devil?

I'm a big believer in utility-style pay by sip business. The employer-employee relationship is inherently prone to abuse and to mispricing, usually in the employer's favor. I've never hired anyone and never intend to.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#77

Post by stephencanon »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #66
stephencanon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart, hardworking people (the same people who might succeed with a startup) can absolutely get rich (in the "don't really need to worry about money" sense, not in the "absurd conspicuous consumption" sense) working for $BIGCORP in their 20s.

How, and over what timeframe?

Take on challenging tasks and do good work. Save at least 25% of pre-tax salary and all bonuses. Don't let it all be invested in your employers stock; ideally diversify via an index fund. Given typical bigcorp compensation at the moment, this puts your timeline to financial comfort, if not independence, under 10 years without any hardship in the meantime.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#78

Post by jfoster »

pg wrote: post #13

I used to advise people to go work for an existing company for a few years before trying to start their own, but I now think that was bad advice. It's true that you learn things working for a big company, but you learn more, faster, starting your own. A lot of people we've funded have said they wished they'd quit their corporate job sooner. I don't remember any saying they wished they'd stayed in it longer. The one p…

They say that, but is it possible that they are undervaluing what they learnt in those few years?

I left my job to start a company. On reflection, the two periods during which I've learnt the most have been the last couple of years in my job, and the first 6 months of starting a company. I don't think the second period of learning would've been nearly as fruitful without the first period of learning, though.

Perhaps it depends on the circumstances of the corporate job. I had the good fortune of having an excellent manager and an interesting role. Most corporate jobs mightn't be like that.

Re: Why you should join a big company first

#80

Post by ph0rque »

unono wrote: post #33
pg wrote: post #13

I used to advise people to go work for an existing company for a few years before trying to start their own, but I now think that was bad advice. It's true that you learn things working for a big company, but you learn more, faster, starting your own. A lot of people we've funded have said they wished they'd quit their corporate job sooner. I don't remember any saying they wished they'd stayed in it longer. The one p…

As usual, PG is 100% right, fighting for us hackers. The article, and others like it, are nefarious corporate PR pieces put out by Microsoft, Google, Apple and others designed to trick us into not realizing the tremendous power we now hold. With the advent of internet,, the transaction costs that first led to the corporation have almost disappeared. This is 'The Age Of The Virtual Corporation'. Work for The Man and y…

Work for The Man and you'll just make Larry Ellison, Steve Balmer, Tim Cook richer.

Incidentally, someone interviewed The Man not too long ago: http://www.raptitude.com/2013/09/an-interview-with-the-man/

Post reply on HN