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You have to beat the man to be the man

charliecurran.com

71–80 of 89 posts

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that the content has to have the same format as movies. Short videos (like the ones produced by CollegeHumor) can have a good script and quality visuals without involving a big budget. The market isn't "films". It is "entertainment".

Exactly. Killing Hollywood doesn't necessarily mean beating them at their own game. Killing Hollywood means that some competitor (or perhaps several competitors) will take away enough share of the entertainment market to make Hollywood's business collapse. For example, TV shows have taken a large chunk of business away from the motion picture industry since TV was invented, but they're not feature films. A similar ex…

>>>For example, TV shows have taken a large chunk of business away from the motion picture industry since TV was invented

Major studios own TV networks today. It's all the same bank account. If your money doesn't go into the pocket labeled "Movie," you're putting it in the one called "TV."

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#72
Hey everyone, I just got out of the editing bay and was really happy to see such a well thought out discussion playing out amongst the community. I wanted to take a moment to clarify my argument and respond to some of your comments in the hopes of furthering the conversation.

The major criticism I noticed was that I somehow misunderstood Graham's argument or that it functioned in such a way that subsumed mine. As I understood Graham's call to arms to kill Hollywood, he was soliciting entrepreneurs to start thinking about how to disrupt Big Media's grasp on the entertainment market. While I am whole heartedly against the practices of a Hollywood we all can agree is in a current rut (e.g. SOPA, DMCA takedowns, etc.) I do not believe that Hollywood has peaked, nor that his prescriptions for hastening its demise are feasible. I took his call as soliciting two options for responding to Hollywood:

a.) By creating more entertaining offerings that would create a zero-sum trade off with Hollywood's offerings ultimately rendering their products irrelevant.

b.) Leveraging technology to create alternate production and distribution mechanisms including new media and interactive programming offerings.

My argument takes a historical approach to examining how Hollywood has previously addressed similar disruptions citing the emergence of television and the rise/collapse of the studio system to begin thinking how one might approach “eating Hollywood's lunch”. Against alternative forms of entertainment and distribution mechanisms, one thing has remained consistent and that is the power of cinema be it in episodic television content or feature length material to consistently survive industry transformations and reorganizations. I think this historical pattern is owed to the nature of the medium itself which satisfies a very human need which is the transmission of stories. I believe that film more than any other medium has refined this craft, and in many ways developed the visual language through which we understand contemporary storytelling. Other mediums will of course tell stories, but I think only filmmaking for the foreseeable future will have the ability to tell stories with the richness and complexity we've evolved as a species to receive and share.

I think it's misguided to place a technologist's view of industry disruption before an examination of the medium's history because I believe it discounts the power of narrative and how we've found ourselves in this particular position. Despite Hollywood's current rut the market for film exhibition has only grown with foreign markets and alternative distribution mechanisms expanding the potential reach of Hollywood's content. I think what is needed now is a leveraging of technology to push film to its inherent potential to tell meaningful stories, what Hollywood once understood, rather than view it as a tool to destroy an industry.

A few of the comments that I thought particularly interesting/pertinent to respond to.

@Nileshtrivedi

I am assuming that the basic format of narrative television and features will remain a constant, due to the historical evolution of the form into its current iteration. Initially conceived films were exhibited at nickelodeons which served up customers short form content though it failed to evolve beyond a mere novelty that soon went through its own bust. It was Adolph Zukor, founder of Paramount Pictures, who championed the format as we currently know it drawing on his understanding of how storytelling dating back to Plato, Aristotle, and the great play-writes of yesteryear stumbled on a nearly universal structure for telling effective stories.

@KaiserPro

I absolutely agree the current pipeline of monetizing Hollywood's offerings is fundamentally broken and has to be done away with. Theatrical distribution demands enormous costs guaranteeing that we will only see low-risk content that has proven to be Hollywood's undoing. The internet and Video on Demand offers a chance to remove these costs in many ways and generate riskier fare delivered straight to the consumer.

@Walshemj and Djloche

Coming up through film school witnessing the rise of crowdfunding and the widespread adoption of digital filmmaking and editing, the costs must and absolutely can come down. These film's budgets assume a pipeline that requires enormous spends on development, production, distribution, print/advertising, and studio overhead. I think Vice offers a great example of how low-cost content paired appropriately with relevant niche markets can provide compelling entertainment alternatives to Hollywood's current offerings.

@Paulsutter

I am not by any means ruling out the inevitable evolution of entertainment offerings we'll see over the next twenty years, but I think to assume film will go away is a hard position to defend. I think it's far more likely that a medium which has demonstrated serious lasting power will evolve and adapt rather than be dismembered by dying conglomerates or new media offerings which will be in their infancy. Far more likely I believe we'll see something similar to the era of New Hollywood in the sixties and early seventies repeat itself.

@Betterunix

The claim that the vast majority of Hollywood's movies are terrible is really a subjective view. For every Transformers there are independent alternatives and risky studio films that sneak through the development pipeline. However, I do agree that the current system of exhibition necessitates a system of tent-pole event films that will inevitably sink the industry if left as it exists now. Look no further than what George Lucas and Steven Spielberg had to say about the sustainability of the current Hollywood model.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/is-hollywood-model-d...

@Guard-of-terra

Absolutely, the star system underwent a fundamental shift with the introduction of television though its ability to adapt to the new pipeline I believe displays its lasting power. A really great read on the transformation the star system underwent with the introduction of television is “Gods Like Us: On Movie Stardom and Modern Fame,” by Ty Burr. A short excerpt that might address your comment.

“The essence of the broadcast revolution is simple: it offered a literal home theatre. No longer did you have to go out to see the stars and be entertained. Now they came to you. This affected the kinds of stars who were created from the 1950s on, in the sense that the people you let into your house are different from the people you pay to see in a theatre. They're more like you and me, for one thing, which also means you and I are more like the stars. For decades – until, arguably, the arrival of nighttime soaps in the 1970s and '80s – the most celebrated figures on the small screen evoked not glamour but ordinariness. They acted out comic and dramatic versions of our own dilemmas, or they filled history with life-sized personalities rather than the bigger-than-life stars of film.”

@Hayesdaniel

While I absolutely feel for you and everyone I know in the Visual Effects industry who has been clearly mistreated in the current system of studio filmmaking, I don't believe that the resolution of that issue is the most fundamental problem facing contemporary filmmaking. I think it's a symptom of larger ills that will need to be resolved. Ultimately I believe if we can't disrupt the model in its current form collectively secured bargaining rights and organization similar to how other industry groups such as the Screenwriter’s Guild or the Directors Guild of America could go a long way towards negotiating fair pay for visual effects studios and subsequently their employees.

@MaysonL

I didn't by any means set out to ignore the success of the video game industry or Pixax, but for my argument I didn't believe them wholly relevant. I think that Pixar offers a really great example how well crafted storytelling above all can be film's savior. They go to incredible lengths to develop and protect their stories, and it shows. However, I don't think that they are the answer to saving the industry either. I have a real fondness for everything Pixar is doing, one of the best storytellers I had the chance to know at film school now works there, but I think the trend of Pixarification of films is actually a threat to the kinds of film that will ultimately usher in a new era of Hollywood. You might enjoy what Danny Boyle recently said on this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz6W0h3r30k

I know this will be a controversial statement, as I get into this argument with my friends who are game design majors on a regular basis, but I do not believe that video games will supplant film as the highest form of narrative storytelling. The industry is relatively young and as such most likely won't create its own Citizen Kane for quite some time. I think far more likely is that a reinvigorated hollywood will become far more intertwined. Looking to Microsoft and Spielberg's recent collaborations I think is telling of where these trends will head with narrative filmmaking supplementing and expanding upon franchises, and video games working more closely with Hollywood to infuse their games with the level of storytelling audiences have grown to expect from their entertainment.

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#73
post #67

I think many, if not most, of the people in this conversation really are forgetting that taste is subjective. What you view as a terrible film is often what millions of people enjoy. What you view as great cinema millions of others would find boring. As an antidote most people I know do not share the same tastes as me (I find the 30s-50s as my golden age of cinema and love Humphrey Bogart) as I with them. While my wi…

>>>Other people didn't want to watch Rubicon

Just want to say I appreciate that mention, having been a fan of that series.

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#74

"instead we see Youtube desperately trying to go Hollywood, offering lucrative contracts to production companies and celebrities to create branded content for the site" Last time I've saw the TV it had feature films about wild life and a lot of youtube videos about pets but not one "celebrity" in sight. The word "celebrity" makes me want to vomit. Can we please ignore that and instead disrupt just that part of Hollyw…

Then you haven't looked very closely at YouTube. You can pay to watch movies there now too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/movies

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#75

I thought this was a great read, clearly the author has thought through is argument and does a good job of describing his reasoning about the challenges the tech community faces with regard to Hollywood's livelyhood. The only weakness for me was that it is hard to argue from a point too far removed from the sources of your arguments. Specifically if you are arguing the future of "entertainment" then Hollywood is but…

Or by doing something like Nintendo or Blizzard in the last gaming generations, where you increase the size of the pie itself.

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#76
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Silicon Valley's mistake (not necessarily PG's mistake) is thinking that what will kill Hollywood is technology. It isn't. What will kill Hollywood is the marriage of technology and the new content creation and distribution models that the technology enables. Curran's point is just that cute cat videos will only get you so far. It's what comes after that that no one seems to have figured out yet. The current…

> cute cat videos will only get you so far. Aren't we already spending more time watching videos on YouTube / CollegeHumor and funny pics on Reddit than we do watching films? One might think that we have solved the content / attention problem. What remains to be solved is monetization.

Except YouTube hasn't solved the content problem. Monetization is a complete afterthought here. Tarantino doesn't sit down and write a movie with the goal of maximizing revenue. If you have great content, the money will follow.

The problem with YouTube's content is almost all of it is either completely forgettable, not brand safe, or just plain crappy. Ask yourself if you would pay $5/mo for access to YouTube's content. The big brands hardly want to be seen next to "cute cat videos" which is exactly why YouTube is heavily moving to have more premium content. Which connects back to the OP, its not solely about the technology - its about creating great narratives using this new medium.

Hollywood isn't about raw attention. Facebook, Google Search, News, Banner Ads, and Billboards are all about selling ads through raw attention. At the end of the day however, you wouldn't pay to use Facebook, you wouldn't pay to look at Billboards, and as we have found recently, people don't want to pay for news. Hollywood and Premium Content are about engagement. Its about creating an itch, and generating hype. You "need" to watch the next episode, you "need" to watch that next Spielberg film, you "need" to see Scarlett Johansson. That is the biggest difference Hollywood and YouTube. No one is tripping over themselves, or camping out to watch a YouTube video.

Lastly, you can now see how this problem cannot be solved solely with technology. How do you quantify the difference between a Spielberg film and a cat video?

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#77
post #15

The real reason a VC company isn't going to kill hollywood is because there's not enough money in it. The author throws around $65 billion industry as if that's some sort of impressive number. FB alone is worth $100B. We could liquidate FB and buy the entire industry and shut it down if we really wanted to. Compare that to LNKD, EBAY, GOOG, hell even CRM. We have hit after hit after hit that are worth more than the e…

Revenue and Market Cap aren't comparable. I don't know where the figure of $65 billion is from, but Disney alone has a turnover of $45 billion, so I suspect it is an order of magnitude off the total hollywood economic value - which is worth vastly more than the box office total.

To compare directly, Facebook received $2.5bn in funding, last year turned over $5bn and made loss of $0.5bn. Disney received no funding, turned over almost $45bn and a profit of $9bn (Making it roughly as profitable as Google).

Not to mention if you couldn't liquidate Facebook if you tried, but say you defied economics and did - you couldn't buy even a single one of the top Hollywood studios with the proceeds - their market caps are all much larger than Facebook. It wouldn't even make a scratch in the industry, let alone buy it out and shut it down.

Saying there isn't enough money in Hollywood for VC's to bother with is a bit like saying there isn't enough money in oil. This is an industry that will happily dump half a billion into a single film and take cash write-downs that would make VCs shudder. Hell, lots of the hollywood companies OWN VC funds.

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#78
post #77
post #15

The real reason a VC company isn't going to kill hollywood is because there's not enough money in it. The author throws around $65 billion industry as if that's some sort of impressive number. FB alone is worth $100B. We could liquidate FB and buy the entire industry and shut it down if we really wanted to. Compare that to LNKD, EBAY, GOOG, hell even CRM. We have hit after hit after hit that are worth more than the e…

Revenue and Market Cap aren't comparable. I don't know where the figure of $65 billion is from, but Disney alone has a turnover of $45 billion, so I suspect it is an order of magnitude off the total hollywood economic value - which is worth vastly more than the box office total. To compare directly, Facebook received $2.5bn in funding, last year turned over $5bn and made loss of $0.5bn. Disney received no funding, tu…

What do you want to call Hollywood? Disney has revenues of $19 billion on TV and $13 billion on their parks, while they only make about $6 billion on movies. The movies have a profit of $722 million, TV $6.6 billion.

I guess I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Disney were making more money from ESPN than from producing movies (I didn't look real hard if they break out their various cable property revenues and such).

Perhaps that only weakens your point, but it seems like Google is maybe a better business than making movies.

(This comment expanded after I finished writing it, I had accidentally clicked submit...)

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#79

"At the very heart of the film industry’s longevity is the art of narrative storytelling which has been refined continuously" The overwhelming majority of Hollywood movies are terrible, shallow stories with formulaic development that are designed to grab money from specific demographics. There is hardly anything artistic left. It may be what people want, but let's not pretend that great works of art are what keep Hol…

I'm not sure you grasped the real point of the author's post.

It doesn't matter if you think the movies are crap - the "art of narrative storytelling" isn't mutually exclusive with shallow film making. It's a technical expertise with developing a story/dialogue/scene sequence. The literal story can be shallow and unappealing, but the story's visuals, acting, etc. are all highly tuned.

I also don't agree that "works of art" are what keep Hollywood profitable. You just said most movies are terrible and formulaic. Those are the biggest money makers, unless you call those more artistic than the indie films everybody loves.

You go on to compare Hollywood to the typewriter. The typewriter is an extremely poor analogy. It was literally eclipsed by superior technology and made obsolete.

You cannot make Hollywood "obsolete" - there is a worship culture to celebrities, a direct product of Hollywood (as the author describes). Hollywood survived the television being put into homes, which would arguably be more of a technology progression. You can't just beat a cult of personality with technology is the author's point - Silicon Valley isn't going to remove something so deeply embedded in America just by getting "smarter" about it. It's vastly more complex than that, and it's not going away just because a startup comes out with something that attempts to make Hollywood "obsolete."

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that your argument doesn't work.

Re: You have to beat the man to be the man

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Killing Hollywood doesn't necessarily mean beating them at their own game. Killing Hollywood means that some competitor (or perhaps several competitors) will take away enough share of the entertainment market to make Hollywood's business collapse. For example, TV shows have taken a large chunk of business away from the motion picture industry since TV was invented, but they're not feature films. A similar ex…

>>>For example, TV shows have taken a large chunk of business away from the motion picture industry since TV was invented Major studios own TV networks today. It's all the same bank account. If your money doesn't go into the pocket labeled "Movie," you're putting it in the one called "TV."

That's fascinating...but I can't find a citation online. How did you come across this? Is e.g. ABC owned by Universal?
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