Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#71

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:26 PM UTC

jzwinck wrote: post #22

ars wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard to simply swap all the pins in hardware if the connector is reversed. You don't need to able to reassign every single pin to make that possible. Lightning is overdesigned which makes it expensive.

You could say that the previous iPod dock connector was over-designed. But it wasn't, because it survived many years and many devices, with only a handful in between (like some iPod nanos) not being amenable to it years after its creation. We do not yet know what fate awaits Lightning. The odds are certainly tilted against it. Not only is Android popular and universally using Micro-USB (unlike when the first iPhone c…

> Not only is Android popular and universally using Micro-USB

And in a year or so, the transition to USB3, requiring a new port, will start; Lightning will handle USB3 with a different cable.

Also, of course, most modern Android devices don't have a microUSB port; they have microUSB+MHL or +SlimPort.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#72

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:28 PM UTC

nwh wrote: post #60

gmisra wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Could you provide a source for this? I was under the impression that the 30-pin connector was (yet another) proprietary Apple hardware standard.

I'm struggling to find any source that directly confirms it, but it's most certainly the same plug used in this standard, and the Dell Streak which conforms to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDMI

PDMI certainly seems to be a copy of the Apple 30 pin connector, but it was introduced long after it. It wasn't electrically compatible, of course. To add confusion, certain Samsung tablets used a physical PDMI interface which was not electrically compatible with either PDMI or the Apple thing.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#73

Post by iyulaev » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:28 PM UTC

Important point - back in 2007, China mandated that all cell phones be able to charge from a standardized connector [1]. The connector they chose was Micro USB. Thus regulatory concerns played no small part in the mini vs micro wars.

[1] http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/tech-news/micro-usb-to-be-a...

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#74

Post by reeses » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #40

simias wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a good innovation indeed. That being said, I'd rather deal with the minor annoyance of having to figure out which way to plug my USB cable than having to carry two sets of cables/adapters to accommodate all my devices.

On proper USB cables, it's always logo-side up, isn't it?

Yet another weapon in Logitech's arsenal of ways to create a small amount of annoyance at every opportunity.

Annoying wireless and iffy non-Windows support join the pack.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#75

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

ars wrote: post #30

jzwinck wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say that the previous iPod dock connector was over-designed. But it wasn't, because it survived many years and many devices, with only a handful in between (like some iPod nanos) not being amenable to it years after its creation. We do not yet know what fate awaits Lightning. The odds are certainly tilted against it. Not only is Android popular and universally using Micro-USB (unlike when the first iPhone c…

> You could say that the previous iPod dock connector was over-designed. But it wasn't, because it survived many years and many devices That's not the test of overdesigned. It's overdesigned if the cost doesn't provide sufficient benefit - and it clearly didn't.

> It's overdesigned if the cost doesn't provide sufficient benefit - and it clearly didn't.

Really? The cost for a lightning to HDMI cable tends to fall in between that of an MHL to HDMI and a Slimport to HDMI adaptor.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#76

Post by rsynnott » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

lucian1900 wrote: post #14

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's port, which doesn't have an up/down direction, is much easier to plug in than the micro USB port, which does. It is an innovation, like it or not, that USB doesn't have.

But it's yet another proprietary connector. We've really had enough of those.

Their options were (a) abandon video out and analog audio out or (b) keep the old 30 pin, which was really showing its age or (c) adopt either MHL or Slimport, which are in a format war and have significant downsides (MHL requires external power unless the display provides it, Slimport is niche and adaptors tend to be extremely expensive). And then, in the iPhone 7, when MHL or Slimport or something else has won, change to that again, breaking everything.

Not to mention the upcoming transition to USB3, which lightning will survive but current Micro-USB will not.

Finally, micro-usb ports are pretty delicate, and a common cause of phone breakage. The lightning port is far more robust.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#77

Post by pbreit » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:44 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #2

This is a great answer, but IIRC there's an other reason to prefer micro over mini: the moving parts in the micro-USB connection are in the male plug, not the female one like the mini. Since those parts tend to break easily, it's cheaper to replace the cable rather than the smartphone/device having the female port. That being said I'm still a bit mad at Apple for ditching their old large port, only to replace it with…

From a user-perspective and not considering cost, Lightning is undeniably superior. With Amazon Basic and Monoprice options getting closer to $10, cost is becoming less of a factor. I would much rather use the superior option. Inserting Micro-USB many times per day is maddening. Who wants that?

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#78

Post by lucian1900 » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:47 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #76

lucian1900 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's yet another proprietary connector. We've really had enough of those.

Their options were (a) abandon video out and analog audio out or (b) keep the old 30 pin, which was really showing its age or (c) adopt either MHL or Slimport, which are in a format war and have significant downsides (MHL requires external power unless the display provides it, Slimport is niche and adaptors tend to be extremely expensive). And then, in the iPhone 7, when MHL or Slimport or something else has won, cha…

Sure, but no one else can use Lightning, even if they wanted to. That's bad, regardless of Apple being within their rights to do so.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#79

Post by pbreit » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:47 PM UTC

lucian1900 wrote: post #14

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's port, which doesn't have an up/down direction, is much easier to plug in than the micro USB port, which does. It is an innovation, like it or not, that USB doesn't have.

But it's yet another proprietary connector. We've really had enough of those.

Is there anything preventing other manufacturers from using Lightening? Lightening is way better. I'd love to see other manufacturers adopt it.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#80

Post by ajross » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 5:54 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #40

simias wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a good innovation indeed. That being said, I'd rather deal with the minor annoyance of having to figure out which way to plug my USB cable than having to carry two sets of cables/adapters to accommodate all my devices.

On proper USB cables, it's always logo-side up, isn't it?

Yes, but sadly one particular very large Korean manufacturer whose name begins with an S thinks that the "proper" orientation of a micro USB port places the narrow/tapered side "up" instead of "down". And they print all their cables opposite of everyone else. Sigh.

But even so, there's no tactile difference. So cabling a phone in the dark (pretty routine at bedtime) is a crap shoot either way. I personally solve this with a bedside dock, but it's a legitimate fault.