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Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

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Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#71
post #46

If you are looking for an alternative to Lavabit, try RiseUp [1]. There is a nice read in their "About Us" page [2] [1] - https://riseup.net/en [2] - https://help.riseup.net/en/about-us Added: Though, it is based in Seattle, so what happened to Lavabit can happen to them too, unfortuneately.

There's also https://mykolab.com hosted in Switzerland. What's more: It is 100% Open Source, so you can host it yourself decentrally.

And you probably should, if you want to maximize your legal protections against governments where third-party access to your data gives the government easier access to your data.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

What makes the American Constitution exceptional is not its content but the fact that it was written in the late 18th century. In the intervening two centuries, several other industrialized liberal democracies have adopted constitutions that are broader and more inclusive than the Bill of Rights.

The English Civil war 1642–1651, and the pro-parliamentarians led by Cromwell, and the Glorious Revolution of 1688, and English Bill of Rights of 1689, using the ideas of Locke's Second treatise(same year), were most important for laying the foundations of the ideas of liberal democracy. Of course, the Magna Carta is also a precursor.

The only thing making the U.S. Constitution unique is that the U.S. was the first major country to be explicitly founded as a Republic, and the first country to overthrow a monarchy. The South American revolutions against Spain were pretty explicit copies of this example - Simon Bolivar, for example, loved Thomas Jefferson, and actually sent his nephew to the University of Virginia. (The Monroe Doctrine was originally about preventing re-colonization of the independent Republics. It's too bad the U.S. did so many evil deeds in the Cold War)

The two intellectual groups involved in the founding were the Democratic-Republicans, led by Jefferson, and the Federalists, led by Hamilton. The Federalists basically, more conservative and sought a close emulation of Britain, were slightly elitist and monarchist sympathizing, and of course, wanted a strong central government. They elitism eventually proved unpopular, but they kept a stronghold in the Supreme Court with John Marshall (the Jeffersonians opposed Judicial Review)

The Jeffersonians were more radical, favoring a weaker federal government and individual rights. Thus they were instrumental in the creation of the Bill of Rights. They tended to favor France and had more diplomatic connection with them. The most radical founding father, Tom Paine, went to France to help the revolution, and narrowly escaped execution in the reign of terror for being a "reactionary".

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#73
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

That is absurd. Do you think every country, and every country folk, would let the government pass a bulldozer all over their rights like this? This is just projecting. In other words, that shit wouldn't fly everywhere, for sure. This all emanates from the 9/11 and Patriot Act and Secret Laws with no oversight, that's your problem specifically, of course every government must be wanting it's own surveillance supermach…

I wholehearteadly agree with your larger point, but as a Brazilian I think Brazil is not a good example in this regard. People here despise the government because of corruption of the "stealing" kind, and inefficiency. Despite our recent experiment with dictatorship ended in the 80's, We have a long road to travel in terms of awareness about the dangers of tirany. The government takes the fingerprints of every citizen when we go make our I.D. Cards, for example. No one makes a fuss. Official propaganda is standard practise (how else would one call the government-bought advertisements to raise awareness about its deeds?) Recenty the folks who organize electios are all over the TV with their campaign to take everyone's prints (see "inneficiency") in order to "make our elections even more secure". Though the last president's plans for "social control of the media" were soundly rebutted, it's telling that he even thought he could try. I'm an optimist regarding the next decades, but it's a long road indeed.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

What makes the American Constitution exceptional is not its content but the fact that it was written in the late 18th century. In the intervening two centuries, several other industrialized liberal democracies have adopted constitutions that are broader and more inclusive than the Bill of Rights.

Most liberal democracies don't have anything like First Amendment or Second Amendment (at the level of protections they provide) and the rights guaranteed to US people by those are routinely violated in other liberal democracies.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the American Constitution exceptional is not its content but the fact that it was written in the late 18th century. In the intervening two centuries, several other industrialized liberal democracies have adopted constitutions that are broader and more inclusive than the Bill of Rights.

There are very few countries with as broad a constitutional protection for speech as the United States. The problem now is that we have a government which has discovered effective work arounds for those protections. The government can pressure intermediaries who don't have the right incentives to vigorously defend their users by going to court, and then the actual targets of First Amendment violations never encounter…

With "Parallel Construction", we see an explicit attempt to avoid Judicial Review, with the DEA mysteriously dropping charges whenever a case goes to court. Which is bad, as we've now trusted the constitution entirely to Judicial Review - congress has washed their hands of a responsibility to uphold it.

I suppose you could argue that the DEA knows it's unconstitutional and is willfully violating, and that raises even more troubling questions.

I also wish the constitutionality of FISC court itself could be challenged, as I think it clearly doesn't fall under article 3. But I have no idea how this would be done.

Some countries, like Germany, have Supreme Courts with more interventionist abilities, and more recourse against willful violations.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#76
post #64

So, since HN is filled with smart engineers, how should one build a sustainable, fully encrypted email service untouchable by the Feds?

Like many "technical solutions", at least most of the answer is easily found - PGP. Also, like many "technical solutions", the answer _isn't_ a technical solution. The bigger problem is people. PGP _will_ secure my email. But out of my almost 1000 contacts I've got only a few dozen with PGP keys. While 95%+ of an email network's users _aren't_ using encryption, the network is fundamentally insecure. That's not an eng…

It's not a people problem, it's a design problem. The technology is there, it just needs to be integrated in a way that makes it 'just work' for everyone.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#77
post #49

So for those of you wondering about Jury nullification, the way it would work in this case is that Levison would reveal that the NSA was hounding him with NSL letters, they would charge him with violating the terms of the NSL and the jury would acquit him anyway. I hope we can get a case like that to move that aspect of the conversation forward. It helped get bad laws off the books in the civil rights cases and it wo…

> hey would charge him with violating the terms of the NSL and the jury would acquit him anyway. You're assuming he would have a trial with a jury. I think that's a big assumption.

Assuming he is a US citizen, and doesn't waive his right to a jury trial (which he should not), the only way to try him would be in front of a jury. That doesn't apply if you are an 'enemy combatant' and held at Gitmo.

I am not aware of any criminal proceeding in which the prosecution can prevent it from being heard by a jury, but I am also not a lawyer. Do you know of a situation other than military tribunals or court marshalls where the jury right does not apply?

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#78
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absurd. Do you think every country, and every country folk, would let the government pass a bulldozer all over their rights like this? This is just projecting. In other words, that shit wouldn't fly everywhere, for sure. This all emanates from the 9/11 and Patriot Act and Secret Laws with no oversight, that's your problem specifically, of course every government must be wanting it's own surveillance supermach…

I wholehearteadly agree with your larger point, but as a Brazilian I think Brazil is not a good example in this regard. People here despise the government because of corruption of the "stealing" kind, and inefficiency. Despite our recent experiment with dictatorship ended in the 80's, We have a long road to travel in terms of awareness about the dangers of tirany. The government takes the fingerprints of every citize…

Yeah, I didn't mean it like Brazil would be anything near 'an example to follow', I was just trying to illustrate how the landscape can be different everywhere else, also to the scope of how the population interacts with their state, for which Brazil definitely has a long way to go...

The picture I was going for would more of how it would not be so simple to have this elsewhere in the same manner, the starting point being that, I'd think, without a good Boogeyman, most peaceful countries do not have especial exception laws to walk over the basics of democracy, without secret laws, secret courts, secret interpretations, it's way harder, possibly impossible in some countries to get to this situation, not to mention technical limitations, budget(imagine the disparity between Inteligence and Military spending around the world x US), media, 'political temperature'(most of Europe and Latin-America are liberal/libertarian-leaning, currently, no?), public and judiciary scrutinity... Basically the framework of democracy is meant to prevent this kind of thing, there may be holes, but still.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#79
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will put dollars to donuts they were after Snowden's contact list. They want to know about his deadman's switch, who holds the keys, and who they have to squeeze to defuse that particular landline.

>They want to know about his deadman's switch They may soon find out more than they wanted to know about it, if it was automated in any way.

Hah. That's something I hadn't considered. Oh my, now there's an interesting concept.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#80
post #31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will put dollars to donuts they were after Snowden's contact list. They want to know about his deadman's switch, who holds the keys, and who they have to squeeze to defuse that particular landline.

They're not asking for any particular information that lavabit has now. If they were, shutting down wouldn't be a solution to not handing it over. They are asking for additional access going forward.

I know, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that Snowden may be in contact with people that his pursuers are not yet aware of. Tapping his communications would give them a much larger attack surface.
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