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Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

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Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#71
post #61
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apparently you've never tried gentoo." and this right here (sorry Parent, just using this as an example) is the reason that Linux has always been consigned to the ranks of the also-rans on the desktop. Someone will always come up with a reason why flavour x is better than flavour y. No matter what aspect of Linux is discussed, there will always be a significant proportion of users that think their flavour is better.…

I applaud Mark Shuttleworth and his vision. Sadly we're missing "something else" other than Mark Shuttleworth. What he does, is what most others are doing in a half-hearted, compromised way: providing a "packaged" system that works without much hassle and which is based in pretty much the same interaction principles of the 70s and 80s. Being Open Source, Linux could do a lot more than that. But nobody explores these…

I am fascinated with the idea of customizable window managers. I haven't delved that deep, but the difference between XFCE and Unity is night and day. I can choose color schemes, window decorations, and make custom task bars. This should be table stakes for graphical interfaces.

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#72
post #56
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apparently you've never tried gentoo." and this right here (sorry Parent, just using this as an example) is the reason that Linux has always been consigned to the ranks of the also-rans on the desktop. Someone will always come up with a reason why flavour x is better than flavour y. No matter what aspect of Linux is discussed, there will always be a significant proportion of users that think their flavour is better.…

> and this right here...is the reason that Linux has always been consigned to the ranks of the also-rans on the desktop. Someone will always come up with a reason why flavour x is better than flavour y. No it isn't. The number of people who don't use Linux on their desktop, simply because someone else commented on a forum that they preferred one distribution over another, is utterly negligible. In fact, the theory is…

But it does impact companies that might otherwise try pre-installing Linux. Whichever distro they pick, they lose 100% of the Windows market plus the 97%* of the Linux market who bitch about not getting their fave version.

* Made up number but I remember Acer shipping netbooks with Linpus Lite...

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#73
post #35
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have tried it, it just takes a week to install, while Ubuntu takes some hours (I test several configurations until I'm happy with one).

How did it take you weeks to install? You basically just extract a small archive.

libc alone took ~48 hours on my P2-266 with 32MB RAM...

(My gentoo experience may be somewhat out of date)

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#74
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have not explained how Android is relevant to a conversation about desktop Linux. >Smart phones, tablets and other mobile devices is the future for Linux and computing in general. Even if that is true, it does not automatically make Android relevant to a conversation about desktop Linux. Will you concede that at the current time, essentially no one uses Android as desktop OS?

What is a desktop but a tablet or smartphone with a keyboard and mouse? It wasn't long ago that "Desktop" meant a rarely moved laptop or a tower attached to a big monitor and some peripherals, so we're not used to thinking of it in more abstract terms. This is changing as the traditional desktop--a computer you set on a surface and do work on--becomes something more modular and tablet-like.

>What is a desktop but a tablet or smartphone with a keyboard and mouse?

Hardly anyone uses Android with a keyboard and mouse (for good reason).

You might believe that that will change, and that is a reasonable conversation to have, but it does not make it unreasonable or silly to have a conversation about desktop Linux that ignores Android.

(When the person I replied to wrote, "what kind of bizarro world is this where Android doesn't exist?" he implied that such a conversation is unreasonable or silly.)

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#75
post #51

Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical are important to ‘desktop Linux’ mainly because they are attempting to kill it. Note that they do not even advertise Ubuntu as a GNU or Linux distribution. It seems the current strategy of Canonical is to change enough of the system so that developing cross-distribution will become more and more of a hassle, and trust software developers to just target Ubuntu due to its market share in…

"Canonical does its best to bring closed-source commercial desktop applications to the operating system through the Ubuntu app store. With good reason: they know the developers of these commercial applications will only target Ubuntu, since unlike open source programs where the distribution’s packagers do the work of bringing your application to their OS for you, that can’t be done very well with just binary packages compiled against x version of y library. Thus forcing users who want to use one of these applications to switch to Ubuntu."

First, I drove the App Store both strategy and was responsible for development - in other words _I know_ why we did it. I am my own citation!

Strategically, what do you think the biggest reason is for why end-users don't move across platforms? Guess what it's application software, specifically lack of important application classes and brand names end-users are familiar with. It comes across in all the user-research. So, what you want to do is to encourage commercial software developers and prove out a market - which leads to a situation where familiar applications are available on an unfamiliar platform.

Guess what the other problem is in the Linux ecosystem compared to other 'alternative platform' ecosystems - the lack of a set of commercial software developers. Think back to Apple in the mid-90's a period where the media thought they "were dead". They could still attract thousands of developers to MacWorlds and there were lots of software companies developing great software for users of the platform. Desktop Linux doesn't have that because it never created a market. The result is not as much fully polished, long-term end-user grade software.

So finding a way to create a market place and create the ability for commercial software developers to target the platform is good for end-users. That's the strategic reasoning.

Next, consider the problems that developers face.

If you go to some conferences and ask developers why they don't target Linux - go ask at some Game developers conferences - they'll tell you two things a) Linux users don't pay for anything/market is too small b) developing for Linux is too hard. Now a) is just a hard problem and the only thing that changes is it is time. But, when you dig into b) what you discover they mean is that the development tools on Linux are hard and that the swathe of packaging options is confusing. Which is exactly why Ubuntu started cutting through the "tyranny of choice" to provide information on how to develop/port - see http://developer.ubuntu.com . It's also why we reduced the complexity of packaging, provided tools and a web portal which is what developers are used to on other platforms - now a developer just has to use the autopackaging tool and the system takes care of the rest of it.

Result is that there are more commercial applications available on a desktop Linux (Ubuntu) than every before. Result, some of the commercial tool developers are targeting a Linux desktop in a way never done before. I'm proud of that. And, since by definition it's easier to port from one distribution of Linux than it is to port from another platform to Linux - you should be proud of that as well.

Either way, that's the _facts_ on _why_ Ubuntu targets developers and full explanation of how it's not an evil genius plan.

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#76
I think Shuttleworth/Canonical are wasting their time with the phone stuff.

They should focus on building a branded/licensed ARM desktop/laptop ecosystem. That is where they can best compete. If they do well there, then they could move to tablets and phones.

One thing holding back desktop linux, is that the options for programming linux GUI's are not that great. There's basically C++, python, and various red-headed step children. Canonical should put some backing into bindings for Rust, Dart, and ES.Next on node.js once they become stable.

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#77

I think Shuttleworth/Canonical are wasting their time with the phone stuff. They should focus on building a branded/licensed ARM desktop/laptop ecosystem. That is where they can best compete. If they do well there, then they could move to tablets and phones. One thing holding back desktop linux, is that the options for programming linux GUI's are not that great. There's basically C++, python, and various red-headed s…

That market segment is shrinking. Not disappearing but shrinking. Their idea is to make the phone the desktop (or rather their desktop the phone).

I for one, am excited. Their edge device looks great as far as design and specs so far.

> There's basically C++, python, and various red-headed step children. Canonical should put some backing into bindings for Rust, Dart, and ES.Next once they become stable.

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#78
post #72
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and this right here...is the reason that Linux has always been consigned to the ranks of the also-rans on the desktop. Someone will always come up with a reason why flavour x is better than flavour y. No it isn't. The number of people who don't use Linux on their desktop, simply because someone else commented on a forum that they preferred one distribution over another, is utterly negligible. In fact, the theory is…

But it does impact companies that might otherwise try pre-installing Linux. Whichever distro they pick, they lose 100% of the Windows market plus the 97%* of the Linux market who bitch about not getting their fave version. * Made up number but I remember Acer shipping netbooks with Linpus Lite...

Not at all. I bought a System 76 laptop that came pre-installed with Ubuntu. But I don't like Ubuntu.

However, I knew that Linux ran on it out of the box, and that meant I could run Slackware without worrying about missing drivers, etc. Also, it was a great way to support a company that supports free software.

To me, a company that sells pre-installed Linux on decent hardware has my admiration and support, regardless of the distro.

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#79
I'm highly suspicious of Mark Shuttleworth and the Canonical guys... hopefully that suspicion is misplaced. It's true that they've done an immense amount of good for desktop Linux - hell, I'm not sure I ever would have gotten into Linux without Ubuntu. On the other hand, they haven't shown that they're really willing to play nice with the rest of the community.

Going off on their own to develop Mir is a big deal, if for no other reason than it looks alienating. Adding Amazon search (by default) to the unity lens is an even bigger deal! I don't come to Linux for that shit! Unity as a whole is not a big deal because you can still just install something else.

I'm just not sure any more. They've burnt a lot of bridges with the community. How is that a good strategy? How is being an asshole a good thing if what you're achieving is partnering with Amazon to snoop on users? What are they trying to achieve here? I don't want to suggest that just because they're trying to make money means that what they are doing is automatically evil, but intentions do matter. What are their intentions? Just to spread awesome free software? I don't think that's all they are trying to do. And honestly, who needs another Apple, Microsoft or Google? We need something better.

Re: Why Mark Shuttleworth is important to desktop Linux

#80
post #7

This article reads like it was written in 2006. The ideas that Linux distros lack polish, and that Ubuntu brought that to the table; that this is a capitalist world and Mark Shuttleworth understands capitalism, etc. are very, very trite.

Were you using Linux on your desktop in 2006? As I remember, the arrival of Ubuntu marked a massive shift in usability. I held out on various other distros, but eventually the extra polish Ubuntu offered was too compelling. Raising the bar has raised the game of other distros, but the introduction of Ubuntu was massive.
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