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Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

nytimes.com

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Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#71

Post by ars »

zanny wrote: post #28
leetrout wrote: post #3

This rings so true. When I had graduated college I was in a 3 week lull between graduation and a job around January when I was struck with a kidney stone. No health insurance. I took a trip to the ER around 10pm one evening in agonizing pain and was treated like a drug addict. I wasn't even triaged for over 2 hours (peak flu season) and everyone acted like I was just trying to score pain meds. Finally, after 3.5 hour…

I broke my knee this spring but didn't go to a hospital on my families request because the last time I broke a bone I reset it myself and the hospital still charged $8k. I still have blood in the joint, but I can't get it drained because no doctor will stick a needle in without an x-ray, but those are expensive. So I'm waiting till I move out and get a full time position in a bigger city to get health care to have it…

I don't know where you live, but here there is urgent care that will do everything regarding a single injury for a flat fee of $150, including x-rays and follow ups up to one week.

Look for something like that where you live.

They treat uncomplicated broken bones too for the same flat fee.

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#72

Post by mathgladiator »

bit_cromwell wrote: post #12

Prescription: Free Market Competition

Free Market would work great if the suppliers couldn't reject people. Free Market ideas work when suppliers want to see to all possible buyers. It's grossly unfair when suppliers can pick and choose buyers based on risk profilers. Essentially, the current system is "get a serious disease, then you do not pass go".

I've seen friends get seriously dicked over because they filled out some insurance paperwork wrong. Ironically (and sadly), they would have been fine without insurance and just invested in a index fund.

I'm a huge fan of socialized medicine simply because I think it benefits everyone simply to have doctors gathering more data. All the stuff we know now is because people had crazy things happen to them (and most of them probably died), so it's in the public interest that people don't go off into the corner and die; rather, the health data is valuable (especially for the rich and upper-middle class who I presume would like to live longer).

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#74

Post by mathgladiator »

zanny wrote: post #34
abraham_s wrote: post #21

How much does the Affordable Care Act addresses this? I know insurance can't be denied to people with pre-existing conditions and there can't be any life-time expense caps. But is there any measure to address the high cost of health care in US?

Effective next year up to 400% of the poverty line is eligible for some fraction of their expenses covered under Medicaid. If you are beyond that threshold is the infamous "uninsured tax". Note that 400% of the poverty line is around $50k a year.

I wonder where the 400% came from; that seems very... odd

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#75

Post by mathgladiator »

leetrout wrote: post #3

This rings so true. When I had graduated college I was in a 3 week lull between graduation and a job around January when I was struck with a kidney stone. No health insurance. I took a trip to the ER around 10pm one evening in agonizing pain and was treated like a drug addict. I wasn't even triaged for over 2 hours (peak flu season) and everyone acted like I was just trying to score pain meds. Finally, after 3.5 hour…

This is why I got my arse in gear and "got a real" job. As I age, I realize that if I was horse, then I wouldn't be betting on myself.

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#76

Post by Someone »

alan_cx wrote: post #68
loginalready wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is not a country. The EU has no single healthcare system. Every country has it's own system, which range from anything between 100% government provided to mostly privatized. No system is the same. And it's not just the EU, it's the entire Western civilization outside the US. This is extremely important, because the healthcare debate in the US is falsely framed as a choice for or against "socialized medicine",…

As I understand it, there sort of is the same health care across the EU. There is an EU healthcare card which means any EU citizen gets treated in any EU country. The systems are different, but in the end we can all get healthcare free at the point of delivery. No absurd bill. The details of how each country does it are different, but the result is the same. No insane bills to stay alive. No poor turned away or treat…

Health care and health care insurance approaches are not the same across the EU, but the EU does proscribe that residents of any EU (1) country insured in one country get medical treatment in any other country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Health_Insurance_Card)

(1) as always, there are zillions of EUs to choose from. Reading the Wikipedia page, it actually isn't the real EU, but the EU plus (all?) members of the EFTA.

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#77

Post by mathgladiator »

ars wrote: post #70
leetrout wrote: post #3

This rings so true. When I had graduated college I was in a 3 week lull between graduation and a job around January when I was struck with a kidney stone. No health insurance. I took a trip to the ER around 10pm one evening in agonizing pain and was treated like a drug addict. I wasn't even triaged for over 2 hours (peak flu season) and everyone acted like I was just trying to score pain meds. Finally, after 3.5 hour…

> Took me over 2 years to pay all of it off. It pretty much wrecked my personal finances Why did you pay it then? Tell the hospital you can't pay and move on with life. If you do well financially pay it then. > threats from collection agencies finally forced me to put it all on my credit card I don't understand this. Why do you even answer the phone when they call? Or open the letters they send? Just ignore them, and…

> Why did you pay it then?

Hospitals can be rather unhospitable. They want their money, and they don't exactly hire the nicest/knowledgeable people. I routinely get collection calls for someone else based on this issue (who either had my number prior to me getting my phone OR the person gave them my number randomly), and I wouldn't invite them over for dinner.

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#78

Post by ars »

mathgladiator wrote: post #77
ars wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Took me over 2 years to pay all of it off. It pretty much wrecked my personal finances Why did you pay it then? Tell the hospital you can't pay and move on with life. If you do well financially pay it then. > threats from collection agencies finally forced me to put it all on my credit card I don't understand this. Why do you even answer the phone when they call? Or open the letters they send? Just ignore them, and…

> Why did you pay it then? Hospitals can be rather unhospitable. They want their money, and they don't exactly hire the nicest/knowledgeable people. I routinely get collection calls for someone else based on this issue (who either had my number prior to me getting my phone OR the person gave them my number randomly), and I wouldn't invite them over for dinner.

Just because they want their money doesn't mean you have to pay it.

Why allow them to decide what you do?

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#79

Post by Shivetya »

Well look past the hospitals and insurance companies when you want to assign blame then. The government creates the laws these entities operate under.

Congress knew damn well what would happen when they used the force of government to compel prices for Medicare/Medicade. Insurance companies got on the ride because of size. Yet it falls to Congress to be the one to look out for the little guy but that was not their concern. Their concern was to maintain the steady flow of campaign contributions.

The ACA was more of a payoff to insurance and hospital industries than looking out for the public. The reason why most members didn't read the bill is because its contents were not important, its effect on their position was what mattered.

For years Federal law has prevented people from shopping across state lines for medical insurance. For years it has been adding elective treatments and surgeries as requirements to even the simplest policies which in turn reduced their affordability.

The solution, try to put everyone in the pool by force of law and reap the rewards of insurance companies and hospitals suddenly with more business than they had means to process.

Re: Diagnosis: Insufficient Outrage

#80

Post by zanny »

mathgladiator wrote: post #74
zanny wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effective next year up to 400% of the poverty line is eligible for some fraction of their expenses covered under Medicaid. If you are beyond that threshold is the infamous "uninsured tax". Note that 400% of the poverty line is around $50k a year.

I wonder where the 400% came from; that seems very... odd

The poverty line is a sliding scale based on household size, so for a 4 person household that threshold is 94,200. It is basically the "you make enough money that you can either get insurance through work or the flat rate we are forcing insurers to pay".
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