The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm • Hacker News Board

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#71

Post by csense » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 5:32 AM UTC

This article raises a multitude of issues.

Issue number one: The problematic ways that the prison system deals with assault and mental illness among inmates.

Issue number two: Whether the potential sentence for a crime purely involving speech, rather than actions, should be so severe as eight years in prison.

Issue number three: Whether the speech in question was Constitutionally protected satire, or a criminal threat.

Issue number four: Whether the defendant should have gotten some slack from the justice system -- i.e. why the police/prosecutors/court involved haven't determined by now that lesser charges/penalties are appropriate.

I'm sure there are more.

I cross-posted this comment from another HN submission on the same case with only a few upvotes, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5987867

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#72

Post by penrod » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 6:22 AM UTC

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #58

must we focus on the genders of every party involved in these types of discussions?

And more broadly, must we refer to sex as 'gender'?

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#73

Post by ryanpardieck » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 6:22 AM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #38

zaroth wrote: post #19

I know articles like this bring out the trolls, but I can't get over the sheer number of commenters (on the target site) happy to see Justin being 'taught a lesson', or claiming that his speech was truly criminal. What hits me the hardest about this story is that, what if an HN post of mine strikes the wrong nerve and next thing they're coming for me? Maybe next they'll be coming for you. Or 15 years from now my kid…

I would wish her a swift expulsion from office for gross incompetence, except that this type of brainless bureaucrat really does represent the people who elect them. We live in a post-literate, lawsuit driven society where such officials are simply following the path of least resistance. I hope the parents have some really good lawyers. This thing may have to go up the chain to their Senator and perhaps a federal cou…

I don't know that I wish ill on the woman. I was confused by the article as to how she picked up on what he said, but if she saw "I'm going to shoot up a school" and was genuinely alarmed--and even if she's a total moron to miss the sarcasm--I think it's a net Good Thing that she alerted the authorities.

The onus lies with the authorities to distinguish between real leads and moronic, no-threat-at-all leads, and to not trample on the rights of innocent people while doing so. Unless the lady that reported him knew for sure that the authorities would grossly misbehave like this, I'd say she's fine. She's likely just a moron; blaming her lets the police and the DA off too easily.

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#74

Post by baddox » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 7:19 AM UTC

asperous wrote: post #11

wavesounds wrote: post #4

"He’s been incarcerated since March without trial." That's the problem. A jury of his peers would throw this out no questions asked.

To be specific, here are a list of constitutional issues being called into question: > Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech > Excessive bail shall not be required > In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial Okay, so the speedy trial clause has been adapted de facto to mean six months, but maybe if he forms a law suite for free speech and e…

Unfortunately for anyone who appeals to the Constitution, the government it establishes is also the government to which it awards the authority to interpret its meaning. In other words, the government can only make laws which the government decides don't abridge the freedom of speech, the government cannot require bail which the government decides is excessive, and the government must provide a trial which the government considers speedy.

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#75

Post by lmm » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 7:21 AM UTC

pestaa wrote: post #34

If I were a cop, they'd only have to send me to 2, maybe 3 cases like this before I'd lose complete faith and resign.

That's why people like you aren't cops.

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#76

Post by DVassallo » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 7:22 AM UTC

cloverich wrote: post #8

So, i'd like to get the full details of this seemingly outrageous situation. After somewhat extensively searching, I've never found what he actually said; only paraphrasing, etc. That's the difference between an obvious joke and... something different. Not that it justifies the situation entirely (or maybe at all), but would perhaps explain the reaction. Consider a similar poster who did an AMA on reddit here: http:/…

This npr article seems to quote the facebook post verbatim:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129...

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#77

Post by DVassallo » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 7:27 AM UTC

What would happen if a bunch of people were to tweet Justin's facebook message verbatim? [1] Since it would seem impractical to put everyone in jail, how does the legal system typically deal with such a situation?

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[1] This article seems to quote the intact message that got Justin in this trouble: http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/07/03/198129...

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#78

Post by crististm » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 7:30 AM UTC

"in free countries such as the United State" - that's a joke Americans forgot what freedom looks like.

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#79

Post by brazzy » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 7:36 AM UTC

beedogs wrote: post #65

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wish her a swift expulsion from office for gross incompetence, except that this type of brainless bureaucrat really does represent the people who elect them. We live in a post-literate, lawsuit driven society where such officials are simply following the path of least resistance. I hope the parents have some really good lawyers. This thing may have to go up the chain to their Senator and perhaps a federal cou…

> As for that woman who turned him in to the police and effectively ruined his life, I'd say she deserves a nice, fat civil suit. Or at least to be doxed and harassed for a few weeks. Let's hope 4chan picks that ball up and runs with it. People need to stop being so fucking hair-trigger paranoid.

This makes you no better than her, not one hair.

Re: The 19-year-old jailed for the crime of sarcasm

#80

Post by brazzy » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 7:38 AM UTC

medde wrote: post #55

zaroth wrote: post #19

I know articles like this bring out the trolls, but I can't get over the sheer number of commenters (on the target site) happy to see Justin being 'taught a lesson', or claiming that his speech was truly criminal. What hits me the hardest about this story is that, what if an HN post of mine strikes the wrong nerve and next thing they're coming for me? Maybe next they'll be coming for you. Or 15 years from now my kid…

is it a crime if I say: hopefully her fireworks are defective?

No, it just makes you a bad person.