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Distributed Everything

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Re: Distributed Everything

#71
post #39
post #32

Recently I've been fascinated by the concept of individuals having a "private cloud" service - a server that they own or rent, which has all the data that an individual could hope to have centralized, contains APIs and UI for remote access from client devices, and acts as the middleman for most transactions with the outside world. The beauty of this is that if it were developed as a unified system, minimal tinkering…

Yup, this is the kind of thing I'm working on at the moment and I'm finding that other folks are thinking along similar lines (but taking different approaches). The first application we want to build on top of the underlying 'private cloud' is email. My viewpoint is that to do this properly, we need to think through things from the ground up with privacy and security built in, otherwise I don't see it as that much be…

As a customer, the thing that is most pressing and problematic is only incidentially also a security issue - it's that I have too many accounts and I don't want to have to manage all of those accounts and set them up individually every time I get a new gadget. A dream package would have a single sign-on that includes all of these things:

Email File sync Identity provision (e.g. BrowserID) Quassel IRC (or equivalent or better two-tier chat/IM) Bitcoin wallet

And of those, I think the most pressing is the identity provision, because it's a "too many accounts" solution that doesn't necessarily disrupt existing workflows. But adding more of those quickly turns it into a compelling offering.

Initially, this could look like any other cloud-based service and even be freemium, while keeping the code open; Wordpress got the model for this pretty much exactly right(albeit the code itself was never very secure).

Re: Distributed Everything

#72
post #18

The founding fathers set up America as a distributed system. It's no accident that as the federal government has taken more power from the states that it has gone to shit.

I think there needs to be a strong balance. For example, I think the "centralization" of EU has been great for unifying citizens across the continent, unifying trade, making it easy to travel and work in other countries, and perhaps the most important aspect - stopping European wars. So far it seems like a pretty democratic system, and the laws tend to be much better, and with a lot more common sense than the ones be…

the UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party) is gaining traction over here, on the back of a single policy - get Britain out of the EU. It's not all holding hands and dancing round the may pole:

- Much of our legal system is now amended in Brussels, rather than London. This should be fairly obvious but the UK != Belgium != Finland != Lithuania, and making sweeping laws across all of the above can/has caused some serious issues.

- We were lucky not to have moved over to the Euro, as currently France and Germany are being lumbered with the task of keeping the currency afloat amid financial meltdowns in Greece, Italy, and Spain. France and Germany caught the short straws here.

- It costs a lot of money to stay in the EU - it's difficult to get exact numbers but between 6 and 14 billion GBP per year are the figures I've seen.

- The European legal system can block the UK government from making rulings, which has both practical and political implications. In the widely-publicised extradition case of Abu Hamza (a known islamic fundamentalist, supporter of Al-Qaeda and general dick), the UK moved to extradite him to the USA to face trial but this was blocked by the European court (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/08/abu-hamza-human-rig...).

Now the EU has its benefits too which should be weighed against, but let me just emphasise that it's not all rosy.

[full disclosure: voted liberal democrats]

[edit: formatting list]

Re: Distributed Everything

#73
post #58

While I do agree to some extent with this post, it is naive in a lot of places. Forgive me if this comes across as picking at the post, but I feel that some of these things need to be said. > You know the sources. You’re all on them. [...] Shitter. While Twitter is grouped with all of these others, I don't find Twitter to be on the same level as Facebook or Google Plus. Maybe it's just me, but I view it as a very lar…

Nice point about decentralization being a part of the problem of spam on the email. But, I also guess that we end up on most of this spam lists because we use centralized services. If we only used decentralized services and emailed only people or organizations we are associated with then I'm sure we'd get fewer spam.

Re: Distributed Everything

#74
post #61
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it takes is a warrant and a plea bargain, and your private 'darknet' (haha) irc server is now a honeypot collecting all the traffic you thought was private. The more popular an easily controlled solution like private IRC servers become, the greater the advantage for law enforcement and others to control them. End-to-end encryption is a requirement for secure communication. Anything less is the same as scribbling…

As long as we can all agree not to get complacent, it's a step in the right direction. Arguing that people need to go form 0 to 60 in under a second isn't going to get us anywhere. For example, if you want to convince someone to become a vegan, which path is more likely to succeed: Omnivore => Vegan or: Omnivore => Vegetarian => Vegan or even: Omnivore => No red meat => Only fish => Vegetarian => Vegan

On the other hand.. what's easier, convincing someone to change a habit once, or convincing them four times?

Re: Distributed Everything

#75

Have you considered that, perhaps, the reason facebook is full of people with nothing to say is because most people have nothing to say? I don't actually think that's the case, or at least it's not the sole reason, there are many features that facebook has that linked pages crawled by google or whatever don't: A social reward structure, reduction of potential meaningful criticism, content aggregation - that last one'…

There is this great quote attributed to Mark Twain: "If you have nothing to say, say nothing." The current state of the internet is quite far from this: we are all encouraged to say something, anything. Here on HN it is quite far from this, but most on the traffic on the social networks I believe can be related to "dumb shit".

I do wonder how much of that we're responsible for sometimes. I was quite little when the internet started to become popular, to the extent that I barely remember it, but I do remember that it used to seem to make people... well, I don't want to say smarter but definitely more rounded.

Lots of people say that technological solutions to social problems don't tend to work. However, things like the size of textboxes, the granularity and orientation of rating systems, the way that threads get created for comments, the efficacy of ignore options and so on... you do have to wonder, I think, how much of an effect these have on the ability of people seeking better conversations to find them and be nurtured by them.

Especially when you consider how that sort of thing's going to interact with search engines as a fairly standard point of entry. If you can't sort for a desired quality then ... oh dear. :/

You know? I was talking to my father a few months back now and he said that there's nothing on the internet. Now you and I know that's not necessarily true - but equally actually finding something like Gwern's site or Hacker News, unless you were looking for it, unless you were moving in certain circles already....

The state of dialogue on the internet looks a lot like the result of a really horrible sorting problem interacting with a bunch of weird incentive structures to me.

Re: Distributed Everything

#76
post #58

While I do agree to some extent with this post, it is naive in a lot of places. Forgive me if this comes across as picking at the post, but I feel that some of these things need to be said. > You know the sources. You’re all on them. [...] Shitter. While Twitter is grouped with all of these others, I don't find Twitter to be on the same level as Facebook or Google Plus. Maybe it's just me, but I view it as a very lar…

I'm not entirely sure why Node.js is constantly used as an example. Is this somehow 'distributed' vs. Rails/Django which are 'centralized?'

Maybe it has to do with selling his "Deploy Node" product for $37.

Re: Distributed Everything

#77
I liked it. Couple of notes.

The internet was more distributed and protocols were way more flexible. Needed something weird? Write your own protocol. Who cares? It's all just TCP/IP.

The beginnings of this problem was people started viewing websites as "locations". They are not. They are simply addressable computers that return html data. They're no more a location than the ether is a location.

An entire commerce system was built around rent-taking of folks as they showed up at your location. This means: game over. The internet is a content game played over http and you or somebody else pays for the content. The rest is just wiring. If you're not paying for the content, you're getting milked of every possible other piece of information you provide to the rent-takers.

Standardization is awesome, but the more we try to centralize and standardize all of the internet, the more really powerful interests are going to take advantage of us. Maybe in a nice way, and I'm sure they're really great folks and all, but I freaking don't want my entire life on display at 27 different spy agencies simply because I wanted to keep up with my high school friends on Facebook. A healthy amount of creative destruction and the ensuing chaos is desperately needed on the net. You want to know why startups are thriving off making iFart apps? Because standardization has killed true innovation and left us with the only thing to do is optimize the little stuff. In Henry Ford's words, all we're doing now is continuing to make a faster horse.

But I do take issue with the constant FB bashing, even though I consider their marketing and growth machine devilishly designed. Facebook is a symptom of the problem. It is not the problem.

Re: Distributed Everything

#78

The founding fathers set up America as a distributed system. It's no accident that as the federal government has taken more power from the states that it has gone to shit.

> It's no accident that as the federal government has taken more power from the states that it has gone to shit.

At which point in the process did this happen? The Civil War and Reconstruction, when the federal government took power from the states and abolished slavery? Or the Civil Rights Act, when the federal government took power from the states and abolished Jim Crow?

Re: Distributed Everything

#79
> Little did I know that Singapore doesn’t have the same freedom of speech laws we take for granted in America.

> In other words, you can get in big trouble in Singapore just for saying or writing something.

whoa... sounds like my country.

Re: Distributed Everything

#80
This analogy just seems a bit confusing to me and threw me off the main point...

End users, readers = coffee consumers

Bloggers = baristas, either working in their own store or a Starbucks.

Mixing the two up doesn't make sense. Well, there are a couple of bloggers that are their only readers - hopefully less guys than the ones that brew their own coffee though ;).

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