Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Revelations about the French Big Brother

translate.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 88 posts

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#71

Post by fchollet »

hbbio wrote: post #54
bsaul wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing, nobody will react. We already have the most impopular president of the last 50 years, one of the highest tax rates of modern country, highest unemployment rate, high abstention rate in elections, high immigration rates, high debt ratios, and the extremist political parties are on the verge of gaining massive support in the next european elections. That, plus the fact that we've had numerous previous exp…

I have to agree with many things you say, but I can't figure out why "high immigration rates" may be a problem. If you imagine a country as a giant shop, the more customers the best.

Immigration can be a huge force for growth and prosperity as much as it can be destructive. You can think of a country as a company, and of immigration as recruitment. Recruitment will make, or kill, a company.

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#72

Post by ataggart »

rayiner wrote: post #45
sentenza wrote: post #25

Ok, so it seems this thing that we call free society is rapidly going off the rails. In addition to GCHQ and this crap from France, Netzpolitik.org recently dug up some interesting info on the publically known activities of the German secret services, which include tapping sea cables[1] and listening in on 5% of DECIX traffic[2]. So we now know for a fact that, while the general populace was blissfully disinterested…

Why does surveillance necessarily have to lead to "actual science fiction dystopia?"

It doesn't, at least not for those loathsome individuals who diligently bootlick for the total state...

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#73

Post by liberte9 »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #65
dragonwriter wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's for example a conspiracy theory to simply note that buildings don't just fall into themselves because of office furniture fires, but it's not a conspiracy theory to believe Saddam is about to unleash WMD without even being able to name what he'd gain from it. It doesn't take genius to note that the deciding factor is not how realistic or dumb fucking stupid something is, or even physically possible for that ma…

One thing I find helpful to keep in mind that if you hang a wall full of analog clocks, they will synchronize. That's just what happens, without any of the clocks ever formulating a plan and the rest agreeing to it. In the same way, it's just common sense that powerful entities, while also competing with each other, synchronize in keeping the unwashed masses in check. If ants can do it, so can people. That in itself…

A wall of analog clocks will synchronize? Elaborate?

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#75

Post by PavlovsCat »

liberte9 wrote: post #73
PavlovsCat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I find helpful to keep in mind that if you hang a wall full of analog clocks, they will synchronize. That's just what happens, without any of the clocks ever formulating a plan and the rest agreeing to it. In the same way, it's just common sense that powerful entities, while also competing with each other, synchronize in keeping the unwashed masses in check. If ants can do it, so can people. That in itself…

A wall of analog clocks will synchronize? Elaborate?

I'm sorry, I meant the really old style analog clocks with a pendulum. After a while, they will swing in unison.

http://www.math.kyushu-u.ac.jp/eng/pages/laboratory04.html

Technically, they do "talk" to each other: "the two pendulums would exert a force on each other through minute vibrations in the wall". I would argue humans do the same. And not just "the" powerful either, everybody does. Sometimes for fun, sometimes for gain, sometimes just to be social, but hardly ever with a clearly formulated "plan", or meetings in dimly lit rooms. That's just not necessary when you already noticed you're in agreement with someone about crucial things, simply because you're both doing them.

Also, it's perfectly normal for people to "conspire" to do something without any of them even reflecting on what they're doing individually, much less as a group. It's possible to work in unison towards a common goal without even being consciously aware of that. Kinda like a flock of birds, or pendulum clocks :P

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#76

Post by Aloisius »

lucian1900 wrote: post #66
threeseed wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You needed proof to know the US government was spying ? It isn't some giant secret you know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

Until recently, it was considered ridiculous to think that the NSA is spying on citizens of countries allied to the US. Now we have proof.

Ridiculous by whom? It wouldn't surprise me if we spied on our allies citizens and then sold the intelligence to our allies so they didn't have to.

I mean, we have in the past warned allies that one of their citizens was planning an attack. It should have been obvious that meant we were monitoring their citizens.

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#77

Post by harryh »

sentenza wrote: post #70
rayiner wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does surveillance necessarily have to lead to "actual science fiction dystopia?"

It is best to do the following thought experiment: What if all communications data was available to "somebody"? Well, sooner or later, this "somebody" would use it for things that for them are no-brainers: For example fighting terrorism in case of "somebody" = law enforcement. But then what? Unfortunately, a situation in which somebody has all the data and is allowed to use it for a limited number of purposes is not…

That wasn't a thought experiment. It was a bunch of predictions with no supporting evidence.

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#78

Post by eksith »

grey-area wrote: post #17
jgrahamc wrote: post #5

So, let's see. The NSA does it, GCHQ does it, DGSE does it. The operating assumption should be that all countries are monitoring all communications for at least metadata. Personally, I would not be the slightest bit surprised to learn that all phone calls are being recorded and as much Internet traffic as possible. I'm not surprised by this news at all. The technical means have been there for years and years. And the…

I'm not surprised by this news at all. The technical means have been there for years and years. Have you thought through the implications of this? To me capturing and storing all the information we generate is really dangerous, and there's no way I'd want a log of everything in my life to be accessible to my secret service, my government, police, and the secret services of anyone they might wish to share it with (in…

The only winning move is not to play. And before you complain this is impossible, for the record, Stallman has been doing the same for years. He doesn't own a cellphone. Think about that for a moment; mull over the implications.

He's been saying for years that the allure of convenience is a mirage in terms of privacy. Is he doing something illegal? No, I think it's safe to say not. Most likely, neither are you.

So why do you continue to play?

Re: Revelations about the French Big Brother

#80

Post by weddpros »

espadrine wrote: post #55
jgrahamc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a discussion on HN, not in a general public forum. Sure, the general public is probably surprised by what's been revealed but we should not be.

Being french, I am quite certain that this is a lesser news to french people than PRISM was to americans. Read the comments (if you can read french), and you'll notice that the reactions are all a sarcastic combination of "not surprised at all" and "that darn government probably didn't even get this right". To sum up the differences: - PRISM was legal. That said, in France, legal coherency is a joke. Laws conflict wi…

Being french too, when I first read about PRISM, I thought the american people would fight it fiercly. I just read about the french equivalent and I know the french people will never try to fight it.

Legal or not, it's our liberty they're taking away from us.

The people of the USA and France now feel powerless against our respective governments. We gave our votes to the executioners of our liberty.

Post reply on HN