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In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

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Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#71

Post by cobrausn »

nealabq wrote: post #52
jmduke wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although things were done differently than they are done in Silicon Valley, the difference is not necessarily bad, perhaps more eye-opening. This is how MOST computer science majors spend their careers. Not mastering MongoDB, collaborating on Google Spreadsheets, or posting things to HN, but using Windows XP, Visual Studio, and Microsoft Word 2003 on a 2008 Lenovo laptop. And MS is perfectly happy taking their money.…

It's curiosity that's important, not new stuff. We read HN because we're curious, and we don't want to miss anything. We don't get stuck on old inferior tools (at least not at home) because we like to tinker and explore. You can judge people, to some extent, based on their reading, their tools, how informed they are about the competition. Programming is like surfing a tidal wave of information and change; you don't i…

'Inferior' is often a matter of perspective.

Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#72

Post by mhurron »

nealabq wrote: post #56
jgh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working past 6 should be considered absurd unless you start at 10 or 11.. There's a world out there for you to enjoy, and many people fought hard for workers rights so we don't have kill ourselves over work.

Not if you love what you're doing.

I work to live. I don't live to work.

Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#73

Post by ownagefool »

jmduke wrote: post #36
ngoel36 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent two summers interning as a Program Manager at Microsoft (Xbox and Office), and his statements are nearly 100% accurate: - Literally any piece of documentation was always 1+ years out of date. Setting up a dev environment could take days when it should have only taken hours. - A lot of my coworkers were over 35. Starkly different from my experience later at Google. Working past 6 was considered absurd, and a l…

Although things were done differently than they are done in Silicon Valley, the difference is not necessarily bad, perhaps more eye-opening. This is how MOST computer science majors spend their careers. Not mastering MongoDB, collaborating on Google Spreadsheets, or posting things to HN, but using Windows XP, Visual Studio, and Microsoft Word 2003 on a 2008 Lenovo laptop. And MS is perfectly happy taking their money.…

There's a ton of wrong with that statements tone, not that I think the author meant it that way, but I'll point it out regardless:

#1 - The majority of HN seems to involve typical latests web crud app fads. It's probably also not that interesting to *nix system developers either, though many might read it for the apps being created as opposed to the how.

#2 - Having MongoDB on your CV generally means you're developing for your CV. Occasionally it means you had a valid usecase, but if you tried to sell me on that for a typical app, I'd never hire you.

#3 - The bleeding edge is called that for a reason. Sometimes you'll bleed and theres very good reasons to stick with tried and tested.

#4 - It's easier to make it simple to get up and running when you have that from the start or early on, and working with techs that make that easy. Not so much when you're inherited a lot of legacy, some of it you don't even understand.

For what it's worth, MS make some decent products, so it's hard to entirely slate them but I imagine the GPs opinion that they could be doing things a lot better is also true, just some of the points were kinda off base imo. If anything.

Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#75

Post by yuhong »

venomsnake wrote: post #19

Publishing something that HR/PR can consider slander under your real name while being junior developer is not a recipe for stable employment. These guys tend to freak out over minor stuff like that. Lets hope it does not have negative consequences. Otherwise familiar - these companies are like supertankers - move slowly and few people are empowered to make meaningful decisions and contributions. Worked for a few year…

Also: http://www.proudlyserving.com/archives/2005/09/an_open_lette...

Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#76

Post by [deleted] »

jedanbik wrote: post #26

I wish I could say things were better on the academic end of scientific computing. Expect no documentation in corporations. --> Expect no documentation in research code. It is not what you do, it is what you sell. --> It is not what you do, it is what you publish. Not everybody is passionate for engineering. --> It is not what you do, it is what you publish. 2-3 hours of coding a day is great. --> It is not what you…

[deleted]

Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#77

Post by chudi »

I had the same feeling entering my first job, and I think that its not something about Microsoft it seems to me that its the clash between what we tough that was work, what were taught that was work in college and what it is work in the real world.

Nevertheless these points are valid and we all know the problems of this stuff.

Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#78

Post by jgh »

sinkasapa wrote: post #70
jgh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working past 6 should be considered absurd unless you start at 10 or 11.. There's a world out there for you to enjoy, and many people fought hard for workers rights so we don't have kill ourselves over work.

I agree if you're working in some drone farm. Without a personal stake, why do people feel enthusiastic about following orders that keep them locked up at work all day? I understand that there may be coercion, like the threat of being fired, but if you're just writing software for your company, where does the enthusiasm for long hours come in? I'm freelance, and I love working on my projects. I often work long hours.…

Even if you're not working at some drone farm you should probably take time to yourself to relax and spend time with your friends/family. I understand if you're freelance and you have deadlines and whatnot you'll need to work long/odd hours, but honestly you shouldn't have to kill yourself with work. I enjoy what I do and have a large equity stake in it, but I'm not going to burn myself out because "I love what I'm doing." It's not good for me, it's not good for my family, and it's not good for my work. If there is a tight, important deadline sure I'll work longer hours, but in most cases it's almost certainly unnecessary and definitely negative.

Re: In 8 months at Microsoft, I learned these things

#79

Post by ownagefool »

nealabq wrote: post #52
jmduke wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although things were done differently than they are done in Silicon Valley, the difference is not necessarily bad, perhaps more eye-opening. This is how MOST computer science majors spend their careers. Not mastering MongoDB, collaborating on Google Spreadsheets, or posting things to HN, but using Windows XP, Visual Studio, and Microsoft Word 2003 on a 2008 Lenovo laptop. And MS is perfectly happy taking their money.…

It's curiosity that's important, not new stuff. We read HN because we're curious, and we don't want to miss anything. We don't get stuck on old inferior tools (at least not at home) because we like to tinker and explore. You can judge people, to some extent, based on their reading, their tools, how informed they are about the competition. Programming is like surfing a tidal wave of information and change; you don't i…

Programming is more like surfing an infinite amount of tidal waves of information change. Every wave is different, but ultimately they're all just waves regardless of how much people argue which is superior to the other.

Point being, when you're 35 and an expert in your field, you probably need to spend less time learning what the cool kids are up to as opposed to when you're 23 and learning your field and everything you learn is new.

That doesn't mean that you can let yourself not be current, but if your future plans are to work 12 hours per day then go home and read HN at night, I pity your wife and family prospects. :p

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