Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

blogs.wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 103 posts

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#71

Post by [deleted] »

laureny wrote: post #66
uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

The difference here is that Snowden is going to be wanted for criminal charges, not political ones, so his case for pleading asylum is very, very weak. It's like someone being accused of murder and trying to seek asylum in another country (I'm not saying that what he did is identical to murder, just pointing out what "criminal" means here).

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#73

Post by arbuge »

I'm also surprised he chose HK - it seems dicey to me. Off the cuff, there are other places that come to mind as being more promising spots. Having followed the Roman Polanski saga a few years back, for instance, I would have thought France would be a proven destination for anyone seeking to avoid US extradition.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#74

Post by dreamfactory »

kombine wrote: post #35
pekk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For which crime is polonium poisoning a legal sentence? Because if it's not a legal sentence, then it is not a matter of eluding "justice".

That is just one example, others are Berezovsky, Chichvarkin, Akhmed Zakayev to name the few. You should know who Berezovsky is, Chichvarkin created a retail chain for mobile electronics who had his business expropriated by some high ranking cops and Zakayev is a former Chechen rebel. This is what I can bring on top of my head, but I'm sure there are a lot more.

Berezovsky is also dead

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#75

Post by ttrreeww »

laureny wrote: post #66
uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

The difference here is that Snowden is going to be wanted for criminal charges, not political ones, so his case for pleading asylum is very, very weak. It's like someone being accused of murder and trying to seek asylum in another country (I'm not saying that what he did is identical to murder, just pointing out what "criminal" means here).

Politically motivated criminal charges. Political asylum.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#76

Post by beagle3 »

laureny wrote: post #66
uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

The difference here is that Snowden is going to be wanted for criminal charges, not political ones, so his case for pleading asylum is very, very weak. It's like someone being accused of murder and trying to seek asylum in another country (I'm not saying that what he did is identical to murder, just pointing out what "criminal" means here).

No one is ever wanted for "political charges". There are civil charges, and there are criminal charges. When the state is the prosecutor, it is very often (though not always) a criminal charge.

When requesting asylum, the requester makes the claim that the charges (of whatever kind) are politically motivated - which may or may not stick in snowden's case. I have no knowledge of the history of extraditions in such matters.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#77

Post by AlexeiSadeski »

oinksoft wrote: post #28
uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

Brilliant. It's sad it lends itself so easily to spin, "The Chinese Turned Him!" I expect that is what Americans will be told to believe.

There was actually an article upvoted on HackerNews a few days ago which supposed, even before Snowden revealed himself, that these leaks were the result of Chinese intelligence activity.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#78

Post by at-fates-hands »

laureny wrote: post #66
uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

The difference here is that Snowden is going to be wanted for criminal charges, not political ones, so his case for pleading asylum is very, very weak. It's like someone being accused of murder and trying to seek asylum in another country (I'm not saying that what he did is identical to murder, just pointing out what "criminal" means here).

Agreed.

He's also rolling the dice in a major way. Although the asylum laws are sort of up in the air in Hong Kong right now, they could just decide to detain him and put him in jail during the process. Worse still, since China has sovereignty, they could ship him back to China and use him as trade bait with the US.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#79

Post by alephnil »

laureny wrote: post #66
uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

The difference here is that Snowden is going to be wanted for criminal charges, not political ones, so his case for pleading asylum is very, very weak. It's like someone being accused of murder and trying to seek asylum in another country (I'm not saying that what he did is identical to murder, just pointing out what "criminal" means here).

Most oppressive regimes will make sure that dissidents also get criminal charges (fabricated or not), so then you could just as well remove the concept of asylum entirely. Hardly any country has political charges after all.

The concept of murder may not be as obvious as you think. If an American murder fled to Norway, he will likely not get asylum, but Norwegian authorities can't extradict him to the US, because they are not allowed to do that when there is a possibility of capital penalty. The same is the case for many other European nations.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#80

Post by platypii »

laureny wrote: post #66
uvdiv wrote: post #17

This is contradicted somewhat by a different source. This one says Hong Kong is a very good place to seek asylum right now, because there is a moratorium on deporting asylum-seekers: But there is at least one reason it could be incredibly shrewd: Hong Kong's asylum system is currently stuck in a state of limbo that could allow Snowden to exploit a loophole and buy some valuable time. Simon Young, director of the Cent…

The difference here is that Snowden is going to be wanted for criminal charges, not political ones, so his case for pleading asylum is very, very weak. It's like someone being accused of murder and trying to seek asylum in another country (I'm not saying that what he did is identical to murder, just pointing out what "criminal" means here).

Could you please characterize the difference between "criminal charges" vs "political ones"?
Post reply on HN