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Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

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Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#71

Post by einhverfr »

anemitz wrote: post #50
tlrobinson wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build open-source, encrypted, p2p networks. Fortunately the 1st Amendment is still mostly respected, at least relative to some of the others. [Edit] Now, monetizing such software is an interesting problem. Ripple/OpenCoin may have found one model: include a cryptocurrency that's used as credits in the system, and claim a large portion for yourself, which you can later sell. The problem is if they open source the soft…

I've also been considering the possibilities of an OSS security focused business. Random thoughts: * Build infrastructure necessary for other developers to build provably secure products on, license this. * Free consumer versions, paid/managed versions for corporations and governments. * Things like secure telephony have business models built in where you could charge per minute (or message) (and probably still be le…

If you get there and want someone to bounce ideas off of or help out, feel free to let me know. (chris at efficito dot com).

The one huge problem I see here is that designing a managed version which could guarantee security against a wiretap order would be quite difficult. In essence you would have to push all key management issues to your users, and that leaves you a lot less to actually manage.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#72

Post by robomartin »

I hate to use this tone but, so be it. Maybe now you morons who continue to vote in the pieces of shit into our government who are bent on taking more and more power for themselves will wake up and figure it out? How much more proof do you need? Does this make you angry yet or is Obama still your diety? Oh, and Republicans don't get a pass either.

The point is that all of you morons voting like robots along party lines are destroying my country, from the inside, one fucking vote at a time. And it is sad. And it is painful. And it is almost unbearable to watch. You are destroying what this country is supposed to be about and turning it into something our children will have to suffer with.

Terrorists won. You morons saw to it. Our way of life is, in many ways, unrecognizable from what it was before 9/11.

When are you going to understand that a conservative Libertarian (as opposed to extreme and nearly anarchist) approach is the only path to recovery? Ultra limited government. They are OUR servants, we are not their property. They need to get the fuck out of our lives, homes, businesses, bedrooms, schools and more.

Time to take it back. Peacefully. Vote with intelligence. Email. Write letters. Make calls. Let them know who they work for. Reboot the system.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#73

Post by einhverfr »

krisroadruck wrote: post #15

Who needs a 4th amendment right? What has to be done to get the Gov to stop doing whatever it likes whenever it wants? I'm really losing faith in this country.

Technically it is well established that CDR's are not protected by the 4th Amendment. Cell site location data is another question and that is currently an area of evolving law with at least two circuits saying there may be 4th Amendment protections there.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#74

Post by adventured »

kingnothing wrote: post #39
h4rrison wrote: post #36

I will never understand the inherent distrust America seems to have in their government. Every time a document like this is released, the logic is to assume that the document applies to all Verizon customers (which it does not), then to assume that all telecom companies have been given similar documents, then to assume that the government actually acts on this and randomly spies on people, then to assume that they ar…

America was founded on the distrust of government. It's deeply rooted in its people.

Would you trust the same government that instigated massive wars in Vietnam and Iraq? The one that spies on the planet without permission. Kills thousands of civilians with drones. Actively prosecutes a zillion dollar fake war on drugs and terror as an excuse to run huge military and police bureaucracies and enrich the insiders involved in it. The one that has a military budget the size of the rest of the world combined. The one that has actively put more people in prison - political prisoners - than any other country in history (outside of maybe Stalin and Mao). The one that has shown absolutely no respect for its own governing documents, with Obama lately using the IRS to attack his political opponents, spying on the Associated Press, running from a big scandal on Benghazi and Fast & Furious, to actively expanding unconstitutional domestic spying programs. The government whose President can only be elected with a billion dollar campaign. The one whose Senators are all bought and paid for by a lobbying industry so large it's bigger than all the lobbying in the rest of the world combined. And on it goes.

You'd trust that monster?

We were warned by the founders about this, many times over. The warnings have become gradually unheeded. Washington in his farewell address warned against the kind of foreign entanglements that the US Govt. now specializes in instigating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell_...

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#75

Post by wybo »

javert wrote: post #18
mtgx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. You should also be fighting it with every fiber in your body. Generations behind you gave their lives for rights like these, and the current generation seems to be giving them away because they are too busy chatting with friends on Facebook to care about it. And if you don't fight it now peacefully, you'll be fighting it in the streets in a bloody revolution, in a decade or two.

I don't see any way to fight it now. What are your suggestions? If we were to have a revolution here, even in a decade or two, we'd probably end up with something much worse than what we have now.

And if you lost faith in Congress, like 94% of Americans. You might also join a realistic effort to reform it: http://www.rootstrikers.org

(ran by Lawrence Lessig, a Harvard law prof who also founded the Creative Commons movement)

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#76

Post by einhverfr »

_pmf_ wrote: post #31

Question from a non-American: if not spying, what are they supposed to do?

They are supposed to be spying on non-Americans only. Keep in mind the US has a long-standing distrust of a porous boundary between military and law enforcement embodied in things like our 3rd Amendment, The Posse Comitatus Act, and more. These have been eroding fast unfortunately since Reagan era (and maybe even arguably since Carter signed FISA), but they are major aspects of American governance.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#77

Post by gigl »

staccatomeasure wrote: post #33
javert wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any way to fight it now. What are your suggestions? If we were to have a revolution here, even in a decade or two, we'd probably end up with something much worse than what we have now.

Have Congress pass laws to make such surveillance illegal. Stop using Verizon or any other carrier that complies (economic protest). Only use technologies that don't permit such spying. Pass state legislation that is counter to the federal mandate and create an uproar that way. The list goes on. We're stil a democracy and when it comes down to it we're still a democracy that gives a lot of power to any one senator. I…

The law already exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

We just need the laws to be followed.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#78

Post by waterlesscloud »

h4rrison wrote: post #36

I will never understand the inherent distrust America seems to have in their government. Every time a document like this is released, the logic is to assume that the document applies to all Verizon customers (which it does not), then to assume that all telecom companies have been given similar documents, then to assume that the government actually acts on this and randomly spies on people, then to assume that they ar…

America was founded with an inherent distrust in government.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#79

Post by newman314 »

austenallred wrote: post #55

A lot of comments in this thread area calling for the head of Verizon and recommending boycotts, but for how much of this is Verizon really at fault? If the NSA comes knocking and tells you to turn over X, you can't exactly say "no", can you? More to the point, it's highly unlikely that this is an issue unique to Verizon; it's just the only one we've heard about so far.

So roll over and take it like a champ?

If everyone thought this way, there would have been no revolution. At some point, enough is enough and I say that that point is way past.

Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

#80

Post by Trufa »

austenallred wrote: post #55

A lot of comments in this thread area calling for the head of Verizon and recommending boycotts, but for how much of this is Verizon really at fault? If the NSA comes knocking and tells you to turn over X, you can't exactly say "no", can you? More to the point, it's highly unlikely that this is an issue unique to Verizon; it's just the only one we've heard about so far.

On the other hand, if you boycott Verizon to the point when (for an example's sake) they are broke, the next business the NSA comes knocking at the door will definitely be more reluctant.

If you can get into the businessman's head that the NSA is bad for business, they'll have a bad time pulling this kind of thing off.

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