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US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

on3dprinting.com

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Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#71

Post by smsm42 »

huhtenberg wrote: post #67
smsm42 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Nobody was threatened with this, nobody will ever be threatened with this. This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario. If you think anybody with this prototype can threaten public safety you are badly mistaken. The idea that any time anything new happens the government should jump in and prohibit it until it is proven safe is exactly why politicians like t…

I'm guessing that one can carry it through the airport security easily enough. It's not that it's printed, it's the fact that it's printed in plastic .

Have you been to any US airport recently? These guys grab my freaking nuts and touch me in places that usually only myself and my wife are allowed to access. And you say it'd be easy to get through them a piece of a size of a large brick without them noticing? Do you know what mayhem an explosive of a similar volume could create? Something does not add up here with your theory.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#72

Post by kevcampb »

There seems to be a lot of assumption that the govt is somehow misunderstanding technology or the internet. I doubt they expect to prevent the distribution of those files, or that they even care about the printed gun - as others have said, it's not really anything new as there are existing ways to make one.

What they probably do care about is Cody Wilson trying to build up some sort of cult around 3d weapon printing. He's spent quite a bit of effort trying to provoke the government and prove he can't be stopped. Seems he was wrong.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#73

Post by gjulianm »

smsm42 wrote: post #68
gjulianm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not the same. Printing a 3D gun is relatively easy: download the design, print it, and that's it (more or less). With an improvised firearm, you have to search the design, get the materials, build it, and unless you're experienced the gun probably won't work. For me, it's like saying "we should not control gunpowder sales because you can make gunpowder at home". Silly example, I know, but you get my point.

You realize you just described the same process twice, only in different terms to appeal to different emotions? It's not like 3d-printed gun does not require design, does not need materials, does not require assembly and is guaranteed to work. And yes, controlling sale of basic chemicals on the premise that this somehow prevents criminals from using them for their nefarious goals is silly. The US government does it r…

You don't have to understand the design of the printed gun. You don't need to search materials apart from the big block of plastic to print and the percutor needle. The difficulty level is completely different.

And I didn't say that I'm for controlled sale of basic chemicals. I said that the idea of not controlling 3d-printer gun designs because "you can also make your gun at home" is silly.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#74

Post by [deleted] »

huhtenberg wrote: post #67
smsm42 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Nobody was threatened with this, nobody will ever be threatened with this. This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario. If you think anybody with this prototype can threaten public safety you are badly mistaken. The idea that any time anything new happens the government should jump in and prohibit it until it is proven safe is exactly why politicians like t…

I'm guessing that one can carry it through the airport security easily enough. It's not that it's printed, it's the fact that it's printed in plastic .

[deleted]

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#75

Post by smsm42 »

shitlord wrote: post #48
Schlaefer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing new, only the newly digitized weapon de jour is changing. Remember back in the nineties when exporting encryption was the hot topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_in...

The only actual difference being that cryptography never killed anyone...

How many people were killed by a CAD file?

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#76

Post by smsm42 »

mbreese wrote: post #34
tlrobinson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's legal to manufacture guns (that would normally be legal) for personal use in the United States without any permit or license or anything. Also they're not saying the data is illegal, it just may be illegal to "export".

Yes, but if you use these instructions, which they've limited the distribution of, you'd be hard pressed to explain where you got them from. ATF agent: Oh, you got that from a torrent? Did you also seed the file? You can see where this is going, and it doesn't have a happy ending. If you do make one of these though, for the love of God embed a chunk of metal. These things wouldn't be legal without it (metal detectors…

>>>> you'd be hard pressed to explain where you got them from.

Why you have to explain anything? As far as I know, you do not owe anybody to prove that you possess anything you have legally, if they suspect it is illegal they have to prove it.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#77

Post by smsm42 »

indrax wrote: post #3

http://www.scribd.com/doc/140471313/Letter-from-Department-o... The letter references a number of items besides the printable gun, including "125mm BK-14M high-explosive anti-tank warhead" Which sounds rather closer to matching the intent of the munitions export regulations.

Do you really think you can have functioning anti-tank warhead 3d-printed out of plastic?

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#78

Post by huhtenberg »

smsm42 wrote: post #71
huhtenberg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that one can carry it through the airport security easily enough. It's not that it's printed, it's the fact that it's printed in plastic .

Have you been to any US airport recently? These guys grab my freaking nuts and touch me in places that usually only myself and my wife are allowed to access. And you say it'd be easy to get through them a piece of a size of a large brick without them noticing? Do you know what mayhem an explosive of a similar volume could create? Something does not add up here with your theory.

You put it in a bag, obviously.

As a bonus, you redesign it into larger number of smaller pieces and spread them over several bags.

You can stick your head in a sand as much as you want, but this is a game-changing development. If one can print a working gun, one can conceivably print other interesting things that to date were assumed to only exist in metal, the assumption that was the foundation of respective detection technology. The assumption that is no longer valid.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#79

Post by aneth4 »

smsm42 wrote: post #64
huhtenberg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a better way to handle this situation? (edit) I'm not saying that this is the best option. The government is tasked with ensuring public safety and this is an issue with major public safety repercussions. They cannot just sit and watch this unfold, and what this guy said is basically the most obvious way of dealing with the situation.

It is not. Nobody was threatened with this, nobody will ever be threatened with this. This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario. If you think anybody with this prototype can threaten public safety you are badly mistaken. The idea that any time anything new happens the government should jump in and prohibit it until it is proven safe is exactly why politicians like t…

How is it not a threat to have guns that can go through metal detectors, which we use in all sorts of government and transportation locations to prevent shootings? Even if this particular prototype is bulky, clearly the technology will advance. The idea that we should only act when there is an "actual threat" when a threat is clearly on its way is absurd. Good government anticipates and prevents threats to public safety, while respecting of course its role and the rights of citizens.

That said, there is nothing the government can do to prevent individuals printing guns and distributing plans, and the first amendment concerns are real. They can make it difficult and unacceptable to profit or engage in commerce related to weapons manufacturing, much like child porn. Without laws, there will be weapons plans widely accessible and the technology will advance more rapidly.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#80

Post by Shivetya »

vxNsr wrote: post #10

Wow, this is unbelieveable... I didn't realize they had this power, or that they'd exercise it like that... it's just scary to think that the internet is not as free or open as it feels or appears.

Typically they only have the power until a court intervenes. What they do is rely on the fact that many sites they take down or information they have removed stay that way as the operators cannot afford to the court costs. That and they will rely at times on public sympathy by using known "concerned groups" who are nothing more than fronts for various politicians.
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