Live data from Hacker News

How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison

businessinsider.com

71–80 of 96 posts

Re: How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison

#71
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tricking people for profit is the definition of fraud. This would make 90% of all applications/websites fraud. Most free(gratis) Windows software tricks you into installing spyware & toolbars. Almost every app on your phone tricks you into giving away personal data. Almost every website tricks you into being tracked across multiple websites.

90%? Are you sure you're not exaggerating that a little bit? Yes, tricking people for profit IS fraud. Tracking you across the web like Adsense does is NOT fraud. The act of stealing someone's contact list like Path does is NOT fraud either (but may be a different crime). And very very little of web sites or applications engage in fraud. The world does a pretty good job of blocking these things, the way Chrome won't…

I don't think that's an outrageous exaggeration.

http://blumenthals.com/blog/2012/01/31/is-google-intentional...

But going beyond that, even when differences are not subtle as in that blog post you still have a large swath of people who won't be able to distinguish ads from non-ads. Just go in the heart of a large city and observe the web-surfing habits of some regular Joe Shmoe and you'll be pretty astounded with his ad-detection heuristics. Large internet companies know and understand this very well, and indeed design their products as such. Heck, when I'm designing webapps I do this too, I guess I'm just cognizant about what actually I'm doing.

Re: How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison

#72
post #65
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty secret is that 90% of e-commerce affiliate revenue is generated by coupon toolbars. Its like what Shawn Hogan did, except it involves every single e-commerce affiliate program instead of just one.

Not toolbars. 3 words: Retail Me Not. They are going public this year w/ a whisper valuation of $2 Billion. Search any merchant + coupons and they are there. It's like printing money.

I know someone who occasionally uses that site, but only searches it for things like a free shipping code after deciding to purchase a particular item from a particular online vendor.

How effect, really, are any of these affiliate programs? Are online retailers actually able to measure how much new business the affiliates are really bringing in?

Re: How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison

#74
post #13

> Much of Hogan's apartment was a clutter of screens, hard drives and keyboards — which the FBI confiscated. That must have been some very advanced and dangerous looking screens and keyboards. Why do we still accept this kind of confiscation of unrelated goods, while throwing big objections if the police had confiscated jewelery, clothes, or anything other non-connected but expensive items? By now, for all the tons o…

I'm sure a lot of laptop computers containing screens and keyboards have been used as evidence. It may be a little too much to ask FBI agents to only take that which contains data, when it's not necessarily always completely apparent.

Re: How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison

#76
post #15

"The problem with affiliate marketing is that there isn't much money in it." A better statement would be: "The problem with the eBay affiliate program is that there isn't much money in it." This is not a problem with affiliate marketing in general.

Ok, there was quite a bit of discussion below about where the money is.

In verticals like e-commerce, it is indeed dominated by about 100-200 players. These guys range from RetailMeNot which is owned by Whale Shark Media to companies like FatWallet and Ebates. There is actually a big variety of major players in the space, but still most commissions are concentrated with them.

If you get into CPA, there's many, many more players out there. I know a few personally that make ~$100k+/month and one that does $500k. However, the commissions aren't concentrated with them. There are thousands of players making $5k-$15k/month with campaign churn. They tend to be 1-person shops working on the latest hot offer.

CPA is very crowded but is easy (sort of) to break into. There's a lot of money to be made, but you also deal with a huge amount of fraud and competition.

I was able to make a very comfortable living as an affiliate in high-end lead generation and B2B, both places where it was extremely difficult to compete with me. There are many segments like this where time and being willing to pick up the phone are often all the competitive advantage you need.

However, what happens is you can build a business or a site or do the campaign churn. People that build sites make some money for a while but are often crushed by more dedicated competitors. People doing the campaign churn (they don't own sites, just advertise stuff and make money off the difference) can keep going for a while, but have to constantly seek out new advantages.

Last, the ones that build businesses make the big bucks. And they often become more than affiliates, seeking to sell the products themselves or vertically integrating in their chosen space. One I know was dealing with travel and eventually became the booking agency for his vertical. No one can compete because he has exclusive direct relationships - the same advantage I sought in my own verticals.

There is a ton of money to be made, but it is a field fraught with risk, fraud, deception and hyper-competitive people with far fewer scruples than you.

I chose to leave the field after making my pile and build the tools I always wanted when I was in it - a much better business overall.

Re: How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison

#77
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I would think the big dog for affiliate payments is Amazon, and they don't really have much in the way of coupons.

Amazon has a 24-hour cookie. So you get paid even if someone clicks on your link and buys something else later in the day. I wouldn't be surprised if this accounted for a huge majority of their affiliate payouts. Cases where someone buys a product directly from Amazon after reading a review are a minority, imo.

Amazon is not that big of a program actually. They have compelling data offerings, but the 24-hour cookie is a liability and there are far fewer driving traffic since Google went to town on spammy sites.

Re: How eBay Worked With The FBI To Put Its Top Affiliate Marketers In Prison

#79
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing clever about misrepresenting yourself to people in business dealings. It doesn't necessarily have to be illegal, but it's always shady.

Don't misrepresent yourself - That's actually an incredibly good and concise guideline for avoiding trouble.

Also it'll save you a lot of money on marketing costs.
Post reply on HN