How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon • Hacker News Board

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#71

Post by hackinthebochs » Wed, May 01, 2013, 5:30 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #70

hackinthebochs wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To each their own. A lot of girls do like pink and will be drawn to an environment that makes them feel comfortable. This environment may be repulsive to you, but then again you already fit in with the "mainstream" programming culture/environment, so its no great loss. On the other hand, I'm sure there are girls that are in the middle and who are turned off my the extreme girly-ness these events try to push. I can ag…

> A lot of girls do like pink and will be drawn to an environment that makes them feel comfortable "Pink it & shrink it" is a big fat steaming pile of bullshit: https://www.google.com/search?q=pink+it+and+shrink+it > but then again you already fit in with the "mainstream" programming culture/environment What makes you say that? I would certainly disagree. > Those of us in the HN bubble tend to forget there is a big w…

>What makes you say that? I would certainly disagree.

Just by your description of why you are into programming. Your description sounds like the many I've heard from other (male) programmers over the years. The point is that you didn't need any other incentive to try it out, and whatever distasteful stereotypes that may exist didn't deter you. Therefore, you fit in with the typical profile of someone who got into programming (perhaps a better way to put it).

>Not me. I'm not in the HN bubble

I'd say you're in it more than most, judging by your submission history. Just reading it on a semi-frequent basis will alter your perception of what is typical in this field. One doesn't have to go to meetups or conferences to be influenced by this place.

>And that's why I said you can't become even a decent programmer without being pretty damn into it.

Of course, this depends on what you consider "decent", which is undoubtedly influenced by the ideas that float around HN and the bubble. The point about supreme levels of talent was to draw a contrast with the typical ideas that are taken for granted here. What you consider "good" I would consider supreme levels of talent/passion/motivation when judging the field as a whole.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#72

Post by ahoyhere » Thu, May 02, 2013, 3:18 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #71

ahoyhere wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of girls do like pink and will be drawn to an environment that makes them feel comfortable "Pink it & shrink it" is a big fat steaming pile of bullshit: https://www.google.com/search?q=pink+it+and+shrink+it > but then again you already fit in with the "mainstream" programming culture/environment What makes you say that? I would certainly disagree. > Those of us in the HN bubble tend to forget there is a big w…

>What makes you say that? I would certainly disagree. Just by your description of why you are into programming. Your description sounds like the many I've heard from other (male) programmers over the years. The point is that you didn't need any other incentive to try it out, and whatever distasteful stereotypes that may exist didn't deter you. Therefore, you fit in with the typical profile of someone who got into pro…

> Just by your description of why you are into programming.

Ahh, I said why I GOT into it. I never said anything about even being into programming any more (cuz I'm not).

Are there good programmers who don't get a thrill out of beating the computer when it's throwing bug after bug? Because bug hunting is a huge part of development and it requires a special kind of perversity to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you hate most of what you do. If you hate most of what you do, you are not going to be very good at it, unless you have a different but equally special kind of perversity. And you have to be diligent about debugging to be a decent programmer. If your code doesn't work, it's pointless to call it code.

> I'd say you're in it more than most, judging by your submission history

You do realize that something like 80% of my submissions are my own blog or my husband's? I'm here for self-promotion, baby, to reach those who haven't yet drunk the koolaid. My blog is essentially the antithesis of the HN belief system. Example:

http://unicornfree.com/2012/second-hand-tales-from-the-start...

And my husband mostly writes about how arguments over programming styles are retarded, for which he gets a lot of flack.

> Just reading it on a semi-frequent basis will alter your perception of what is typical in this field.

No, being involved in it -- believing it -- buying it will. But I'm not, and I don't.

> Of course, this depends on what you consider "decent", which is undoubtedly influenced by the ideas that float around HN and the bubble.

I don't read tech blogs. I don't read technical posts on HN. It'd be an epic waste of my time. But I've worked with lots of crappy programmers.

> What you consider "good" I would consider supreme levels of talent

How do you know what I consider good?

You're projecting all kinds of opinions on me that you have no business. For example: our main source of income is running on Rails 2.x… because it serves our customers, and that's our priority. We don't follow TDD because extremes are pointless. Etc. I don't care unless it benefits (or costs) our customers. Bet you didn't know that.

You seem to think we're engaged in some kind of debate, but the "debate" is nothing but you telling me (and HN) how I am. But, newsflash: I'm a person, not some kind of phantom you can make believe, think, and do anything you want.

So. Boring.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#73

Post by hackinthebochs » Thu, May 02, 2013, 12:33 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #72

hackinthebochs wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What makes you say that? I would certainly disagree. Just by your description of why you are into programming. Your description sounds like the many I've heard from other (male) programmers over the years. The point is that you didn't need any other incentive to try it out, and whatever distasteful stereotypes that may exist didn't deter you. Therefore, you fit in with the typical profile of someone who got into pro…

> Just by your description of why you are into programming. Ahh, I said why I GOT into it. I never said anything about even being into programming any more (cuz I'm not). Are there good programmers who don't get a thrill out of beating the computer when it's throwing bug after bug? Because bug hunting is a huge part of development and it requires a special kind of perversity to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you ha…

Jesus Christ, you're a piece of work. I was relaying my impression from your words and other signals. If my impression was wrong, then so be it. Your hostility is completely unnecessary and just serves to further degrade the conversation around here. If this place is purely for self-promotion, perhaps you should take extra care to follow the rules and assume good faith as this exchange has been an extremely poor reflection of you.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#74

Post by flootch » Thu, May 02, 2013, 7:46 PM UTC

mnicole wrote: post #69

mnicole wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one's saying women need to be coddled; the problem is that people recognize that the current state of the industry/the internet are jerks . You can only tell people to ignore bullying so long, especially when those doing the bullying aren't being punished, but those that are being victimized by it are being told to instead change this perceived weakness about themselves . People should not have to worry about bein…

Instead of feeding the trolls responding to one aspect of my post that nobody actually has any evidence of either way (David brings it up with the weak defense that he thinks people are too quick to rush to sexism and that's a "problem" -- as if being quick to be an unnecessary asshole isn't the overarching issue to begin with), here are some relevant quotes from her initial post that illustrate why the private repos…

Exsqueeze me?

Two people disagree with you what the consensus of that discussion was. Both people provide links. You did not.

Who is more likely remembering the discussion correctly? The folks that provide links to it, or the person that vaguely remembers it?

And we are trolls and you are not?

This must be feminist logic, because I see this sort of stuff at feminist websites everyday.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#75

Post by danilocampos » Thu, May 02, 2013, 8:42 PM UTC

flootch wrote: post #74

mnicole wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of feeding the trolls responding to one aspect of my post that nobody actually has any evidence of either way (David brings it up with the weak defense that he thinks people are too quick to rush to sexism and that's a "problem" -- as if being quick to be an unnecessary asshole isn't the overarching issue to begin with), here are some relevant quotes from her initial post that illustrate why the private repos…

Exsqueeze me? Two people disagree with you what the consensus of that discussion was. Both people provide links. You did not. Who is more likely remembering the discussion correctly? The folks that provide links to it, or the person that vaguely remembers it? And we are trolls and you are not? This must be feminist logic, because I see this sort of stuff at feminist websites everyday.

Any time you want to provide a simple answer here, that'd be fine. I understand sometimes difficult tasks take awhile, but we're going on days.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5635300

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#76

Post by mnicole » Thu, May 02, 2013, 9:00 PM UTC

flootch wrote: post #74

mnicole wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of feeding the trolls responding to one aspect of my post that nobody actually has any evidence of either way (David brings it up with the weak defense that he thinks people are too quick to rush to sexism and that's a "problem" -- as if being quick to be an unnecessary asshole isn't the overarching issue to begin with), here are some relevant quotes from her initial post that illustrate why the private repos…

Exsqueeze me? Two people disagree with you what the consensus of that discussion was. Both people provide links. You did not. Who is more likely remembering the discussion correctly? The folks that provide links to it, or the person that vaguely remembers it? And we are trolls and you are not? This must be feminist logic, because I see this sort of stuff at feminist websites everyday.

> I see this sort of stuff at feminist websites everyday.

And I'm the troll. Figure your life out, dude.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#77

Post by err_badprocrast » Thu, May 02, 2013, 9:43 PM UTC

zachlatta wrote: post #47

err_badprocrast wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Introductory (aka prerequisite) computer science classes seem to be aimed at people who're learning from nothing. If you already know C++ in depth (or whatever language is used), a lot of it is just language-specific feature review. YMMV, this is judged from local state college/community college. about the education system, I'm of the opinion that high school is mostly a waste of time; I dropped out 2 years early and…

How did getting out of high school early go for you? I'm finding that high school is seriously lacking. To supplement, I've been working on my computer science major at a local community college. Unfortunately, doing both college and high school is extremely time consuming and I've been looking for alternatives to high school.

Depending on what you want to do and how overqualified for school you are, a GED is a valid alternative to graduating IMO. That said, you potentially lose a lot of social interaction and sports/clubs which I found to be the most valuable parts of high school.

Personally I was easily able to get 3650 on the GED (out of 4000) which is enough to automatically get into state schools. I have no clue how it would work at a more prestigious school, but at the time that really wasn't something I was concerned with.

I don't feel qualified to say whether it was a good idea because I dropped out after I ended up in foster care (long story, my parents kicked me out after I told DHS about some incidents). Regrettably I wasted several years after this doing nothing but smoking weed and playing video games due to a general lack of motivation. I'm back working on stuff now after quitting games altogether - splitting focus is apparently an impossible task for me.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#78

Post by flootch » Thu, May 02, 2013, 10:42 PM UTC

mnicole wrote: post #76

flootch wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exsqueeze me? Two people disagree with you what the consensus of that discussion was. Both people provide links. You did not. Who is more likely remembering the discussion correctly? The folks that provide links to it, or the person that vaguely remembers it? And we are trolls and you are not? This must be feminist logic, because I see this sort of stuff at feminist websites everyday.

> I see this sort of stuff at feminist websites everyday. And I'm the troll. Figure your life out, dude.

Disagreeing with the nonsense that passes for argument at feminist websites doesn't make me a troll.

Quite the contrary, it places me squarely in the majority these days. Figure my life out? Feminism needs to figure out why so many people (including me) agree with so many feminist goals while disagreeing with feminist tactics.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#79

Post by flootch » Thu, May 02, 2013, 11:00 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #10

flootch wrote: post #4

“This is a terrific story, and proof that young girls are an untapped resource of innovation,” said Change The Ratio co-founder Rachel Sklar, when we told her the news. It seemed this young woman acted identically to any young individual interested in tech. Learned about tech. Lived tech. Talked tech. Practiced, practiced, practiced. Didn't need any self-victimizing pink ghetto look at me give me an advantage because…

Can you expand more on "self-victimizing," what you think that is, and how it expresses itself?

Uh, go read the wiki if you don't know what self-victimization is, or why contemporary feminists are (correctly) accused of it, or how it presents itself in this rah rah look what the girl did against all odds and oppression of men account of her hackathon win or in Rachel Sklar's quote:

“This is a terrific story, and proof that young girls are an untapped resource of innovation,” said Change The Ratio co-founder Rachel Sklar, when we told her the news. “More and more role models in the space are showing girls like Jennie (who is now one herself!) that this is a place for them, and for their talents. And now organizations like Girls Who Code are providing the infrastructure to get there. The floodgates have opened — the ratio is changing.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_playing

Victim playing (also known as playing the victim or self-victimization) is the fabrication of victimhood for a variety of reasons such as to justify abuse of others, to manipulate others, a coping strategy or attention seeking.

And if it still isn't clear to you, have someone read to you what others, including women, have written in this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5636111

In all these threads, and around the web, and in meatspace too, many women, from all sorts of backgrounds repeat the same messages, and contemporary feminists dismiss them or worse, call them chill girls and queen bees. http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/09/10/a-note...

This sort of contemptuous, dismissive, insulting, ignore them, pat-them-on-the-head-and-tell-them-to-stfu behavior is what passes for state of the art contemporary feminist argument. And better, it's is deeply reflective of the sort of patriarchal argument that contemporary feminists claim to be against but actively work to implement for themselves.

http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/Witch_of_the_Week

See also https://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+american+women+nov... and ask yourself, if you favor scholarships, contests, special projects for American Women Novelists, but presumably not for American Men Novelists, why shouldn't American Women Novelists be cloistered into a pink ghetto category? The sponsors of such projects are saying women are lesser creatures that cannot be expected to compete with men and need special protection, special incentives, special prizes, and special attention.

I reject this thinking and am saddened people think women cannot compete on an equal footing with other humans.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#80

Post by ahoyhere » Fri, May 03, 2013, 2:42 AM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #73

ahoyhere wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just by your description of why you are into programming. Ahh, I said why I GOT into it. I never said anything about even being into programming any more (cuz I'm not). Are there good programmers who don't get a thrill out of beating the computer when it's throwing bug after bug? Because bug hunting is a huge part of development and it requires a special kind of perversity to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you ha…

Jesus Christ, you're a piece of work. I was relaying my impression from your words and other signals. If my impression was wrong, then so be it. Your hostility is completely unnecessary and just serves to further degrade the conversation around here. If this place is purely for self-promotion, perhaps you should take extra care to follow the rules and assume good faith as this exchange has been an extremely poor refl…

Cool! You've told me so far that…

> but then again you already fit in with the "mainstream" programming culture/environment

> I'd say you're in [the HN bubble] more than most

> What you consider "good" I would consider supreme levels of talent

I get that I'm a very interesting topic. But it's a mystery to me how you consider it "hostile" of me to point out that you are making statements about me that have no basis in fact.

Probably you consider me hostile because you, as part of the HN bubble, don't know how to react politely when being questioned. And, as part of the HN bubble, what you consider to be a reasonable argument, I consider a bizarre ad hominem remark.

See what I did there?

But that's okay, cuz:

> Jesus Christ, you're a piece of work.

Good to know you think so!