Did they ever figure out the motive of James Holmes? I'm wondering what ever happened with that.. any reason WHY?
Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
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Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#72I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…
I think you've asked an interesting, reasonable question here, but you should have looked for a way to avoid any suggestion of sympathy if you hoped to see answers to the former as opposed to reactions to the latter.
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#73I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…
If the allegations are true (they murdered women and a child and blew off the limbs of innocent men women and children) then they are not victims, they are criminals. Saying they are victims and suggesting that pity be given them is wrong. It insults the real victims in this tragedy.
Can't they be both?
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#74I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…
In the interview one of their uncles said that the older brother called around 2009 or so and started babbling about Islam and "holy war". So this uncle shut him off pretty quickly by saying it is a complete nonsense.
The younger brother's "V Kontakte" page has some stuff that shows him in a bit different light compared to his twitter account. Perhaps because it was in Russian he was a bit more revealing. There he was a member of several Islamic groups (not exactly extremist ones, just in general Islam oriented). He also posted few comments and even a joke that sort of indicated how Chechens have been treated, the joke goes like this: "The Question: Chechen, Ingush and Dagestani are in the car, who is driving the car? The Answer: police".
What I think happened is that the older brother could not adjust quite well, and had some beef with his relatives as they were not too close. So these two brothers were sort of marinating in their own insanity. The older one could not fit in, probably felt like a failure and was a good candidate for a brainwash. The younger was another good candidate, their parents are still in Dagestan, both brothers lived alone.
I think it is a very complicated case and I think they acted alone, because they lost it alone at some point. Left to themselves they were easy prey to propaganda machine. I personally think it is extremely sad case for every single person involved including victims, their families, bombers and their families. The only winners are those who are spreading hate and brainwashing vulnerable people at the lowest point of their lives.
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#75"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him." -Dostoevsky On twitter a lot of people are essentially saying "Good, now we'll get answers. " I'm sorry to say I don't believe there is typically anything satisfying about the answers of people who become deranged. Maybe this time, but if reading about madmen past is any guide, its very unlikely that we will be enligh…
Even a deranged motive provides some explanation, which is more than we have.
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#76I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…
This kind of thinking is very dangerous and can be used to excuse all sorts of terrible behavior. We are all responsible for our actions. I can't prove that we have free will, but I feel it's important to believe it.
Explanation != Excuse
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#77Thank God. While I'm honestly not concerned about the man's well-being - that 8-year-old boy should be alive in his place - I am very curious as to why they did this.
I wonder if he'll talk. If he is treated like a normal citizen, he doesn't have to say a single thing to the officers conducting the investigation.
He will not be treated as a normal citizen and will be interviewed by the "high value detainee interrogation group" https://twitter.com/abc/status/325417178927083524
edit: Carmen Ortiz (prosecutor in Aaron Swartz case and now Boston Bombing/Manhunt) confirms use of public safety exemption
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#78I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…
This kind of thinking is very dangerous and can be used to excuse all sorts of terrible behavior. We are all responsible for our actions. I can't prove that we have free will, but I feel it's important to believe it.
I don't believe that humans have free will although from time to time I doubt my believe because it is so extremely far from our everyday experience. But this kind of thinking is not dangerous; either there is free will and everybody is - at least partially - responsible for his actions or there is no free will and we are done because everything just happens and we cannot even freely discuss this.
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#79I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…
I see this argument boiling down to two trains of thought. One is that people are fundamentally good and only external forces make them do bad things. That appears to be the opinion you have expressed. The second is that people are fundamentally bad and that external forces are required to keep them from doing bad things. I think the more you look at the world the more you find this second postulate is the right one,…
A third train of thought is that we evolved to live in groups, able to show great empathy--the source of most "good" actions--for members of our group, and no empathy at all for anyone else. That would acknowledge our natural tendencies to be helpful and loving, selfish and destructive, depending on worldview and circumstances.
Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive
#80"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him." -Dostoevsky On twitter a lot of people are essentially saying "Good, now we'll get answers. " I'm sorry to say I don't believe there is typically anything satisfying about the answers of people who become deranged. Maybe this time, but if reading about madmen past is any guide, its very unlikely that we will be enligh…
I interpret that quote differently than you. To me he's saying not that we won't learn anything from evildoers, but that it's important that we really try.
And I think that's exactly right. The younger suspect seems by all accounts to be a smart young man. It's important that we try to understand what drove him to do something so terrible, even as we denounce it.