Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

_why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

scribd.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 140 posts

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#71

Post by KirinDave »

unalone wrote: post #68
jacquesm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> _why was the first person to actually create art around and about software. That's complete rubbish. But it probably is correct that he was the first person that created art around and about software that you are aware of.

Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community. There are a variety of cultures surrounding coding which, while somewhat diverse, still feel like somewhat of an echo chamber. You have the coding-for-startups culture, for one, and then you have people who are very invested in coding efficiency for the sake of coding efficiency. Bot…

> Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community.

Let me modify jacquesm's comment so we can put a halt on this.

Fuck you for discarding the creative work of literally a whole generation of people in the software community before _why entered the scene.

I cannot use any term less hostile. It's that repugnant to me. It's such a toxic, repugnant, self-centered post you and the previous commenter have made that I was literally dragged back to HN after months of hiatus just to vent my anger.

You are wrong. You are imply everyone who came before was a mindless, emotionless robot. Art and programming have been intertwined since before programming was a real thing humans could do. See Lovelace's letters on her take on the subject if you want to talk about it. So there is that.

So to all you people who want to act like somehow you've discovered the secret of emotions and programming? You're telling all those who came before you to go fuck themselves. You have told them that your ignorance invalidates their work, then proceeded to wax philosophical on the tiny sliver of the body of work you are aware of like it's an entire universe.

It wouldn't be okay in any other medium, in any other artform, or in any other discipline. Period. And it's not okay here.

There. My jimmies have rustled free.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#72

Post by eob »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #17

I think the thing I like about _why -- not that anybody asked -- is that I'm never sure what to think when I'm reading this stuff. Usually I can't get through more than a few sentences of something without judging it: "That was smart, this was insightful, this author is a moron, I don't think that was right, I disagree with that but I'm not bothered by their opinion..." _why really kills that here. I'm never sure if…

Nicely put. I think that you've really captured what about his writing and persona are so special to the community.

I think the sense of sensitivity you feel through his writing adds to that, too. If he's making a joke of you, it's a gentle one. Kind of the yin to Zed Shaw's yang.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#73

Post by unalone »

KirinDave wrote: post #71
unalone wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community. There are a variety of cultures surrounding coding which, while somewhat diverse, still feel like somewhat of an echo chamber. You have the coding-for-startups culture, for one, and then you have people who are very invested in coding efficiency for the sake of coding efficiency. Bot…

> Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community. Let me modify jacquesm's comment so we can put a halt on this. Fuck you for discarding the creative work of literally a whole generation of people in the software community before _why entered the scene. I cannot use any term less hostile. It's that repugnant to me. It's such a tox…

Got that out of your system, buddy?

"Our modern software community", referring to the current generation of the software community, obviously doesn't refer to the whole generation of people who existed and did good work before _why entered the scene. Clearly Ada Lovelace and _why were far from contemporaries.

You are reading something into what I wrote that isn't actually there. It's nice that you're as passionate about this as you are, and it's a good thing to be passionate about, but I do think you're misreading what I wrote, and getting terribly upset about it in the process.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#74

Post by unalone »

KirinDave wrote: post #71
unalone wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community. There are a variety of cultures surrounding coding which, while somewhat diverse, still feel like somewhat of an echo chamber. You have the coding-for-startups culture, for one, and then you have people who are very invested in coding efficiency for the sake of coding efficiency. Bot…

> Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community. Let me modify jacquesm's comment so we can put a halt on this. Fuck you for discarding the creative work of literally a whole generation of people in the software community before _why entered the scene. I cannot use any term less hostile. It's that repugnant to me. It's such a tox…

Let me add to my other comment: I apologize if what I said came out dismissive of the many, many great programmers that do good work and help form the community. I was trying to provide context for why _why strikes such a chord within some people, rather than argue that everybody should feel about _why the same way that his biggest fans do.

It was genuinely not my intention to rustle any jimmies, and I am sorry that my comment provoked you so.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#75

Post by KirinDave »

unalone wrote: post #73
KirinDave wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community. Let me modify jacquesm's comment so we can put a halt on this. Fuck you for discarding the creative work of literally a whole generation of people in the software community before _why entered the scene. I cannot use any term less hostile. It's that repugnant to me. It's such a tox…

Got that out of your system, buddy? "Our modern software community", referring to the current generation of the software community, obviously doesn't refer to the whole generation of people who existed and did good work before _why entered the scene. Clearly Ada Lovelace and _why were far from contemporaries. You are reading something into what I wrote that isn't actually there. It's nice that you're as passionate ab…

> Got that out of your system, buddy?

No.

>"Our modern software community", referring to the current generation of the software community, obviously doesn't refer to the whole generation of people who existed and did good work before _why entered the scene.

In our generation you can find tons of people doing performance art with code and custom hardware. The music scene is positively bursting at the seams, as is the gaming community.

> Clearly Ada Lovelace and _why were far from contemporaries.

A useless attempt at a conversational dodge. Good luck.

> You are reading something into what I wrote that isn't actually there.

You literally can not know what you do not know. For example, I've attended a talk on continuations by Jim Wierich before _why was more than an occasional poster on the ruby list (and well before his book was done). It included a poetic interlude and multiple scenes from Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. It was programming education as performance art as Wittgenstein's Ladder, so even in the Ruby community _why had contemporaries and inspirations. And the graphics demo community has been at it since computers had monitors.

So again I say you and your sentiment are utterly wrong, in every conceivable axis upon one could evaluate it. Your self-centered disregard for everything outside your immediate field of view is a detriment to, in both technical and non-technical pursuits. It is an attitude endemic in this industry and on this website, and one of the reasons I so rarely frequent this place.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#77

Post by jacquesm »

unalone wrote: post #73
KirinDave wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let me modify the OP's comment, Jacques: _why was one of the first people to create art around and about our modern software community. Let me modify jacquesm's comment so we can put a halt on this. Fuck you for discarding the creative work of literally a whole generation of people in the software community before _why entered the scene. I cannot use any term less hostile. It's that repugnant to me. It's such a tox…

Got that out of your system, buddy? "Our modern software community", referring to the current generation of the software community, obviously doesn't refer to the whole generation of people who existed and did good work before _why entered the scene. Clearly Ada Lovelace and _why were far from contemporaries. You are reading something into what I wrote that isn't actually there. It's nice that you're as passionate ab…

> "Our modern software community", referring to the current generation of the software community

How about the current (or probably already the previous) generation of Ruby programmers? I think that would fit the bill a lot better. And that probably would need the word 'subset' in there somewhere.

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#78

Post by jacquesm »

wbhart wrote: post #66

I only have questions, and _why is only one of them. The two burning ones for me are to what extent is he deliberate with the role his persona plays and to what extent are individuals trying to take a stab at what they think his role is, in the vain hope that he will take up the role again, having been given new direction by their witty proposal? (Easier to feel good about someone's role when they aren't disappeared.…

The guy is just really good at implementing one of the rules of PT Barnum: "Always keep them wanting more".

Re: _why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

#79

Post by unalone »

jacquesm wrote: post #77
unalone wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got that out of your system, buddy? "Our modern software community", referring to the current generation of the software community, obviously doesn't refer to the whole generation of people who existed and did good work before _why entered the scene. Clearly Ada Lovelace and _why were far from contemporaries. You are reading something into what I wrote that isn't actually there. It's nice that you're as passionate ab…

> "Our modern software community", referring to the current generation of the software community How about the current (or probably already the previous) generation of Ruby programmers? I think that would fit the bill a lot better. And that probably would need the word 'subset' in there somewhere.

It would. I wasn't expecting this thread to turn as heated as it abruptly became, or I'd have thought my words out more carefully. Forgive my sloppiness?
Post reply on HN