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USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

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Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#71
I think a lot of people are confusing the three kinds of applicants of H-1B visas. I don't want people to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

* Category 1 is your average small company who found a great foreign engineer and wants to keep them for one reason or the other. These are in the minority.

* Category 2 is your Google, Microsoft, etc hiring high quality engineers.

* Category 3 is your IT outsourcing / consultancy companies, like WiPro, InfoSys etc.

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Of H-1B applicants, #3 is overwhelmingly the largest. These companies fill up most of the quota and crowd out the smaller employers. They also pay closest to prevailing wage (i.e. "low" wages). The crappy part is that sometimes they don't even end up using those H-1Bs down the road while people like me lose their chance in the lottery.

#1 and especially #2 seem to pay wages that are not really correlated with prevailing wage, they pay what they think an employee is worth. In #2's case this can be multiples above prevailing.

A per company limit could help with this, and seems fair to me. This would also distribute the foreign labor better. Not everyone would apply to WiPro et al because they know they're getting a guaranteed visa. Instead smaller companies would get some attention too, and the "h-1b sweat shop" dynamic would be reduced. There are already penalties for being H-1B dependent, but apparently not large enough to be a deterrent.

Or maybe smaller companies could be cap exempt, or part of their own cap. It's not like they are threatening to overthrow the US labor market, accounting for maybe 10k jobs a year. Leave them alone. Let the larger multinationals and such deal with expensive legal procedures, since they really have the power to displace American workers.

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Of the PERM (green card) applicants, the overwhelming majority is #2, followed by #1 and then #3. This tells you how much cat#3 cares about retaining their H-1B workers. For them, I imagine H-1Bs are an incentive for their workers to come work in the US for the lower end of the prevailing wage, and maybe a vague promise for immigration that doesn't get fulfilled very often. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just get an L-1 for your employee (which is even more abusive since it has absolutely no prevailing wage requirements).

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Another tangential point is that people say that this isn't an enforcement problem but in some respects it is. Prevailing wage is determined not only by your profession / job but also your level in that job. I imagine many companies misrepresent that level and also the job title (programmer instead of software architect, etc) to be able to pay lower. Of course the way the government checks against this is mainly through attestation: you tell them what the job description is and they compare with the description of that level. After that there is 0 enforcement. But I'm not sure if more enforcement is the key, since even the mention of an audit is enough to stop any but the largest companies (with expensive counsel) from hiring H-1Bs.

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Anyway, hope this gives you guys some perspective. It's not all bad, and not everyone is in the business of undercutting Americans. But reform is definitely needed. People like me are struggling.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#72
post #7

It's insane. I have a coworker who is an unbelievably talented and respected developer both at my company and in the open source community. He has been working on a student visa after he graduated from an Ivy League school in computer science last year. That the U.S. is even considering deporting him is batshit crazy to me.

What's insane is that your company doesn't allow him to work remotely.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our company is staffing up a full IT department right now. We don't even look at the education section. Oh? You went to school for 4 years for CS? Good for you. Show me what you've built/what you've done. Anyone can get a degree; doers build.

I'm not saying there aren't companies who do that. But you must realize your company is an exception, right? The majority of companies use a CS degree to filter candidates. The OP made things more difficult for himself, so it makes little sense to complain about how difficult of a time he had. He could have made it 10x easier by switching majors to CS.

Why switch majors? Drop the education part, build something, show it to companies looking, profit.

Degrees are overrated.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#74
post #22
post #20

Wow, I had no idea the H1B system reverted to a lottery at some point. I thought it was just a first-come first-served system. That just... sucks. Just a note for those of you who are looking for foreign workers or if you're an Australian citizen: you can get an E3 visa (2 years, multiple entry, renewable ad infinitum). There is a cap for these too but AFAIK it's never been hit (in the 5+ year history). The E3 has tw…

> (but you do need to leave the country to apply; you can't adjust status while in the US). That's actually not true[1]. You can change status to an E-3 from within the US by filing Form I-129. [1] http://1.usa.gov/boasGi

I changed jobs this way recently and it took ~6 months to receive a decision from USCIS.

Others have been done much quicker but I would be prepared to wait going this route, and also take USCIS's processing times with a grain of salt.

If the E-3 allowed for premium processing[1], portability[2] or the 240-day rule[3], I would try I-129 again otherwise I think I'll just apply for a new visa outside the US.

1: Pay an extra ~$1200 to hear back from USCIS in ~2 weeks.

2: Permission to start work for a new employer upon filing the I-129.

3: A 240 day grace period during which you may continue to work for your existing employer after your status expires.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#75

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I distinctly remember Oracle's CEO complaining about H1B visas for our graduation speech. It was a stale speech, particularly when their company never even sent a Rep to our school's career fair. It took me months (7) to get a web dev position as a physics major, often because I was perceived as a weaker candidate. My git projects were never even looked at and I was once told to…

Your story doesn't back up the claims you're making. To be honest, I'm surprised you got any developer position at all with a physics major. If you wanted to do web development, why did you get a physics degree? It's like saying "I want to be a doctor" and then getting a law degree. College is training, and you trained to be an entry level physicist. There are plenty of recent CS grads looking for jobs, and their maj…

Oh, come off it. 18 year olds make bad career decisions all the time as they lack the experience and information that would help them making the right choice. Sometimes there is external pressure. Also, people change. And sometimes you realise halfway through your programme that your major is really not for you.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying there aren't companies who do that. But you must realize your company is an exception, right? The majority of companies use a CS degree to filter candidates. The OP made things more difficult for himself, so it makes little sense to complain about how difficult of a time he had. He could have made it 10x easier by switching majors to CS.

Why switch majors? Drop the education part, build something, show it to companies looking, profit. Degrees are overrated.

I think you missed my point.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is insane. Despite getting in by April 1st we're now waiting on the lottery results to see if our first engineering hire can stay in the country. It's going to be extremely disruptive both to him and to us if he can't stay. Stupid.

Is the distance between him and your team really going to be that disruptive if he/she needed to work from another country? Seriously people; this is Hacker News. We build things on The Internet. Since when is distance an acceptable excuse of a limitation for team members?

You'd be surprised by the number of technology companies big and small that can't wrap their heads around remote workers.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#78
post #67

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I distinctly remember Oracle's CEO complaining about H1B visas for our graduation speech. It was a stale speech, particularly when their company never even sent a Rep to our school's career fair. It took me months (7) to get a web dev position as a physics major, often because I was perceived as a weaker candidate. My git projects were never even looked at and I was once told to…

Your story really reminds me of what it was like for me to get into the business as well. I was a math undergrad with an Industrial Engineering MS degree, and it took some work to get that first dev job. I'd done some coding for my classes, and I'd written a lot of personal projects. I was doing this back in 2000, when it was more unusual to have something like a github profile where you could share code. It was diff…

I absolutely agree on Oracle, it's the biggest gripe on my post. Unfortunately I was on my phone so I couldn't convey everything I wanted just the way I wanted.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except I'm not looking for sympathy. And your assertion that a CS degree prepares you for real life programming is almost laughable. Plenty of people work in areas that are only peripherally related to their majors without detriment to their trade. Your comparison of web dev to being a doctor tells me your understanding of the trade isn't all that clear.

If for no other reason, a CS degree is useful because it helps find entry level jobs which lead to actual experience. Without a CS degree, though, how can you really ascertain whether it's useful for "real life programming" or not? You've done okay without it, but you don't know how well you'd have done with one. Second, I, and apparently several people you interviewed with, would claim physics isn't even peripherall…

Ok, I see your point. On my earlier post, I was typing on my phone, but it comes off as rude where I was trying to be brief.

I understand that a CS degree would've made things much easier on getting a job, and I would've been offered a higher salary as well, I'm sure. As I said, that's why I don't ask for sympathy, I know full well that my path is probably the less traditional one. But even so I had plenty of hours of programming on the courses I took -- C/C++, Digital Electronics (programming FPGA boards, tinkering CPUs/APUs), not to mention that I had an 18 month internship -- which is where I learned about web dev -- and I designed two relational databases in previous part-time jobs. All of this came up during my various interviews, and I wasn't ever given a callback until I was. So I'd say there's an abundance of candidates, even if there's potentially a skill gap on those candidates it's a gap that's easily bridged, but too many employers don't want to invest any time training in their employees, which shouldn't be the norm in any industry, but is somehow acceptable in our current tech industry.

Re: USCIS Reaches 2014 H-1B Cap

#80

fyi - Exemption for U.S. Master's Degree: Under the law the first 20,000 H1B petitions that are filed on behalf of foreign nationals that have earned an advanced degree from a U.S. institution of higher education are exempt from the USCIS H1B quota. This essentially creates a separate pool of 20,000 additional H1B visa numbers each fiscal year that are available only to those foreign nationals who have earned a Maste…

Which is why there are master's degree mills for the people running bodyshops.

Check out almost any Comp Sci faculty at any major american university -- you will find a lot of foreigners --- especially Chinese and Indian kids. These universities and those kids have nothing to do with bodyshops. To lump all of them with bodyshoppers is just ignorant.
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