Live data from Hacker News

Realtime Bitcoin Stats

realtimebitcoin.info

71–80 of 152 posts

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#71

How do you calculate the hash rate? I have spent some time trying to understand the various hash rate estimates people come up with. Basically, I've determined that they're all 100% bogus. People like to work from the difficulty using bad/incorrect statistics since that's the most obvious way to get to something in the units of hashes/s, but I can never understand exactly what the process is. I'm genuinely curious to…

100% bogus? I'm not sure what bad/incorrect statistics you are referring to since it's relatively straight forward to find.

The current target hash is "0x000000000000022FBE0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000"

This means that to solve a block, you must find a SHA-256 hash of that block's transactions + nonce that hash to a value equal or below that target. Since the output of a SHA-256 hash is essentially random, the probability of finding a nonce that evaluates to hash at or below that target is roughly [target]/[possible sha256 outputs] or 3.51e60/2^256, or 3.034e-17. On average, that means it takes 1/3e-17 or 3.3e16 hashes per block. To calculate average hashes per second of the network, we look at number of blocks solved in the last x unit of time (if you want a 24 hour average, take the number of blocks in the past 24 hours). As of the time of this post, 170 blocks have been solved in those 24 hours. This implies an expected 24*3.3e16 or 8e17 hashes have been computed. Divide by 86400 (seconds in a day) and you get 9.26e12, or 9.26 TH/s. The site reports 6.5 TH/s, presumably because it uses a longer window than 24 hours (probably 7 days).

Just because it's a statistical average instead of the exact rate doesn't mean it's 100% bogus. If you want, you can use fairly standard statistical models to find an acceptable error margin.

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#72
post #60
post #51

I got a "Your browser sucks" message because I had scripts disabled. Poor form.

Off topic... is this a correct ranking of preferred form in handling this situation? blank page or other such confusing non-function : bad "your browser sucks" - page still doesn't work : poor "please enable scripts or get a newer browser" - page still doesn't work : fair "please enable scripts or get a newer browser" - page works for non-js users but is somewhat crippled : good page works perfectly without js : exce…

If this was a company website or something maybe I would agree with you, but seeing how the draw here is "Realtime" bitcoin, the OP obviously put in a lot of work in the realtime aspect. If you look at the source it looks like websockets + canvas.

Considering this, it seems OP would have needed to rewrite the whole service (he would have needed to write application layer + the alternate html) just to serve those without javascript, which would not be in realtime (and essentially a duplicate service of all the other bitcoin exchange boards).

Whats the tradeoff in terms of development time vs. supporting a small set of users?

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#73

I love the visualization, but wow almost $200. Greater fool theory is at work here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

Definitely a bubble forming - bitcoins marketcap was 1B only a week ago ( http://blockchain.info/charts/market-cap ). Note they also use the Ƀ (B with stroke) to represent Bitcoin. Kudos to ECOGEX for their discussion a few weeks ago that set this in motion ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5451084 ).

No, that's complete nonsense. Only some individuals represent bitcoin with a stroke.

Bitcoin surprisingly doesn't have a standard in its logo and symbol usage. Everybody said BTC for bitcoin though.

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#74
post #40
post #34

Hm. I hope that sites like this are not a new trend but fear otherwise. Visiting this page with my screen reader (NVDA from http://nvda-project.org ) shows all of a combo box with different currencies in it. There is precisely no other content. At least before the worst things the blind had to worry about were unlabeled links that you could eventually possibly figure out through trial and error. This? Nothing. I don'…

That's unfortunate. All text is rendered with SVG, so it should be technically possible for your screen reader to pick up on when new SVG text nodes are added. Perhaps i should add a "Your screen reader sucks message" :-P

That sure sounds like you're saying, "My customer can't use my product. I know, let's blame him instead of doing something about it." :-P

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#75
post #39
post #26

Is there any way of estimating the 'real" bitcoin economy?IE, Use of bitcoin to buy & sell goods & services rather than exchanging bitcoin for cash & via versa? I mean lot of investing/speculation is obviously going on, but is there growth in bitcoin based commerce? That's ultimately the problem I hope bitcoin will solve.

You could attempt to replicate the analysis used in "Quantitative Analysis of the Full Bitcoin Transaction Graph" by Dorit Ron and Adi Shamir. ( http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf ) In 2012 they noted that: “If we sum up the amounts accumulated at the 609,270 addresses which only receive and never send any BTC’s [bitcoins], we see that they contain 7,019,100 BTC’s, which are almost 78% of all existing BTC’s. Due to…

Thanks for the link.

I do wonder what "Bitcoin Banks" like Flexcoin do to these statistics. I "feel" like no one really uses Flexcoin, but that would definitely skew the statistics by a lot.

Its a bit unfortunate that there is no real statistic that can stand on itself... But Ron and Shamir's work there is useful.

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#76
I have one new appreciation for fiat currencies - they're designed to circulate with a steady rate of inflation. It seems there's a hesitation of spending bitcoins knowing if you just wait a day it will go up, so it's being treated like a precious metal rather than a new way of paying for things.

Edit: Thanks for the correction, meant to say fiat currencies tend to 'inflate', not deflate.

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#77
post #71

How do you calculate the hash rate? I have spent some time trying to understand the various hash rate estimates people come up with. Basically, I've determined that they're all 100% bogus. People like to work from the difficulty using bad/incorrect statistics since that's the most obvious way to get to something in the units of hashes/s, but I can never understand exactly what the process is. I'm genuinely curious to…

100% bogus? I'm not sure what bad/incorrect statistics you are referring to since it's relatively straight forward to find. The current target hash is "0x000000000000022FBE0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000" This means that to solve a block, you must find a SHA-256 hash of that block's transactions + nonce that hash to a value equal or below that target. Since the output of a SHA-256 hash is essentially r…

It doesn't bother you that your method counts only unique hash values tested? Or that this value is being used on the site to talk about power expenditure (which is clearly related to total hashes per second, not unique hashes)?

You're right that you can compute the N-second average rate easily. But nobody reports the "network hash rate" as such. And since the denominator matters a lot in determining what the number means, pretty much all the numbers you find out in the world are (1) misreported and (2) bogus.

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#78
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% bogus? I'm not sure what bad/incorrect statistics you are referring to since it's relatively straight forward to find. The current target hash is "0x000000000000022FBE0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000" This means that to solve a block, you must find a SHA-256 hash of that block's transactions + nonce that hash to a value equal or below that target. Since the output of a SHA-256 hash is essentially r…

It doesn't bother you that your method counts only unique hash values tested? Or that this value is being used on the site to talk about power expenditure (which is clearly related to total hashes per second, not unique hashes)? You're right that you can compute the N-second average rate easily. But nobody reports the "network hash rate" as such. And since the denominator matters a lot in determining what the number…

It does count only unique hash values, but why should that bother me? People don't randomly generate the same 256 bit number very often (in fact, the probability is so low that it has almost certainly never happened)

When I search for "bitcoin network hashrate" on google, the first link is http://bitcoin.sipa.be/, which does in fact report the N-second average rate. It reports the 7-days, 14-day, and 30-day average rate.

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#79

I have one new appreciation for fiat currencies - they're designed to circulate with a steady rate of inflation. It seems there's a hesitation of spending bitcoins knowing if you just wait a day it will go up, so it's being treated like a precious metal rather than a new way of paying for things. Edit: Thanks for the correction, meant to say fiat currencies tend to 'inflate', not deflate.

I think you mean inflation, where the longer you hold on to it , the more worthless it becomes.

Re: Realtime Bitcoin Stats

#80

I have one new appreciation for fiat currencies - they're designed to circulate with a steady rate of inflation. It seems there's a hesitation of spending bitcoins knowing if you just wait a day it will go up, so it's being treated like a precious metal rather than a new way of paying for things. Edit: Thanks for the correction, meant to say fiat currencies tend to 'inflate', not deflate.

I think you mean inflation, where the longer you hold on to it , the more worthless it becomes.

Thanks and you're correct, I was thinking how deflationary bitcoin was while writing. Fixed.
Post reply on HN