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Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

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Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#71

Post by gonzo »

jusben1369 wrote: post #54

There's a risk that the assumption is Google cares a lot about Android. I think Google just cares about there not being closed platforms that threaten their ability to drive search/advertising revenue. If Samsung drives Tizen and happily supports Google's products I'm not sure either cares.

and with Rubin out, the de-emphasis on Android has begun.

Google is likely trying to move back to a position of neutrality. It will put apps for its services on any phone / platform that 'matters'.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#72

Post by nicholassmith »

OGinparadise wrote: post #63
kyrra wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of antitrust law would the government use against Google in this case? Google does not hold a monopoly and they are not price-fixing anything. They may be accused of anticompetitive behavior, but unless Google does something very irrational I don't see that happening.

Check Android market shares on smartphones all over the world and see what you get. Google escaped Search scrutiny in US by buying off lots of politicians with tens of millions in lobbying but they'd get crushed if they blackmailed Samsung over Tizen.

Sorry to break it to you but it's still not antitrust, whilst Android enjoys a large percentage of usage it's not an all out monopoly to the extent an antitrust case would survive. It's high granted, but not monopoly stakes yet.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#73

Post by camus »

uchi wrote: post #51
RyanZAG wrote: post #4

While I'm sure Samsung would love to replace Android with Tizen, I doubt they will actually be able to do it. While Apple and Google make it appear easy to create an OS that users enjoy using, the reality is that it is incredibly difficult. Just look at Windows Phone - I'm fairly sure that Microsoft is more able to create a technically superior OS to Samsung, and I think the amount of money Microsoft has poured into…

"Yet Windows Phone is a dismal failure even with Nokia's huge manufacturing bulk behind it. The only sensible conclusion I can come to is that making a desirable mobile OS is far more difficult than it appears, and that there are numerous 'below the water line' effects that make a mobile OS popular." I don't have any empirical data to back this up, but in my personal opinion a large reason why Windows Phone just isn'…

I agree 100% , MS brand hurts its own products outside the corporate realm. They should use a total different branding for non Windows related stuffs or rebrand themself totally.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#74

Post by ben1040 »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #37
RyanZAG wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far as I can tell, those clauses are specifically related to the Android trademark / Google Apps / etc. Creating a full fork (of the publicly available source) as allowed by the Apache license with different name and no direct relation to Android should be just as good as creating Tizen. I guess the sticky point here is the closed-source early access releases that Samsung gets. Google must be threatening access to th…

No, the clause applies to Android forks, not just those using the Android name, Acer was forced to cancel a phone using an Android fork going by another name because of it: http://thenextweb.com/asia/2012/09/13/alibaba-claims-google-...

That no-forking requirement was a function of Acer being a member of the Open Handset Alliance.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/09/google-blocked-acers-...

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#75

Post by fakeer »

RyanZAG wrote: post #62
fakeer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt Tizen will take off . Samsung's software prowess is nowhere near to companies making and capable of making world class/sophisticated OS(or mobile OS). There is a lot of things that goes against Samsung which is in the company's DNA (culturally embedded it) and those are the things that hinder innovation and cutting edge research(esp. from s/w research perspective). (Probably the same things actually help them…

Great points. I think that helps me fill in a few gaps in what Samsung might be thinking here. Google has threatened that Samsung lose support if they fork Android. They might or might not actually do it - Samsung is a major Android player. The threat is still enough that Samsung have chosen not to try forking Android. However, Samsung still wants more control. The solution is to use Tizen with Android compatibility…

>>The threat is still enough that Samsung have chosen not to try forking Android.

I can't think of anything great or innovative Samsung can after forking Android. It will let it die a sad and quick death by turning into an extended TouchWiz all over. I think Samsung knows that it's better to let Google do the dirty job.

As per Tizen, not sure about its potential. I think other OEMs, if tried together would a lot better, rather than just Samsung(or practically the only one and leading the push) would try for it, work fir it would be better. Samsung just going to make this mobile OS a bulky ugly mammoth. It looks like Bada I think. Doesn't feel elegant but what I used was not a final version. It was boot-up phase and haven't checked after that.

But this is not the case. It's Samsung and Intel and the rest - means just two of them. Nokia had a good opportunity. But then it's hardly in a situation to risk sth other than MS.

Anybody think I've got way on/off track here?

Naah, you are pretty fine. All one can do right now is speculate.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#76

Post by sachingulaya »

fakeer wrote: post #58
RyanZAG wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far as I can tell, those clauses are specifically related to the Android trademark / Google Apps / etc. Creating a full fork (of the publicly available source) as allowed by the Apache license with different name and no direct relation to Android should be just as good as creating Tizen. I guess the sticky point here is the closed-source early access releases that Samsung gets. Google must be threatening access to th…

I doubt Tizen will take off . Samsung's software prowess is nowhere near to companies making and capable of making world class/sophisticated OS(or mobile OS). There is a lot of things that goes against Samsung which is in the company's DNA (culturally embedded it) and those are the things that hinder innovation and cutting edge research(esp. from s/w research perspective). (Probably the same things actually help them…

One correction: The last nexus(nexus 4) was from LG. The Galaxy Nexus & Nexus S were from Samsung.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#77

Post by azakai »

smacktoward wrote: post #67
uchi wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yet Windows Phone is a dismal failure even with Nokia's huge manufacturing bulk behind it. The only sensible conclusion I can come to is that making a desirable mobile OS is far more difficult than it appears, and that there are numerous 'below the water line' effects that make a mobile OS popular." I don't have any empirical data to back this up, but in my personal opinion a large reason why Windows Phone just isn'…

"Microsoft is associated with corporation and money and monopoly." This is a good point, but I think it'd be closer to the mark to say that Microsoft is associated with work . People are often forced to use Microsoft products when they are at work. They frequently have little say in how these products are selected or configured. They're told that The Company has made those decisions for them, so they should just shut…

Spot on. For most people, Microsoft products are what your boss tells you to use. Psychologically, there is just no appeal in buying them outside of work.

Microsoft was smart not to call XBOX "Windows Console" or such, but probably silly to call their mobile OS "Windows Phone".

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#78

Post by bsaul »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #31
bsaul wrote: post #10

On a more technical aspect: does anyone knows whether the HTML5 apis tizen offer will be fast enough to cover all the needs for "nativ" apps ? I was building a HTML5 phonegap app very recently on a samsung galaxy Tab 2 and couldn't help notice how sluggish the overall feeling was, even for extremely basic UI animations (had to switch to 3D CSS transformations to make sure 3D hardware was used). If I understood correc…

APIs are neither fast nor slow. I guess your asking if their WebKit port is going to be fast? Probably not, WebKit on ARM is still not that fast. I don't know what JS engine they'll use, likely JavaScriptCore but that's not very fast on ARM either.

i did ask for apis, because i thought that laybe, as javascript is at the core of their UI, they would hardwire stuff directly to native code to speed things up. that's just wild guess, because it seems so suicidal to me to have a whole OS GUI written in html5/js right now.. especially when you know that Samsung is selling so many cheap smartphones.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#79

Post by bsaul »

kyrra wrote: post #30
bsaul wrote: post #10

On a more technical aspect: does anyone knows whether the HTML5 apis tizen offer will be fast enough to cover all the needs for "nativ" apps ? I was building a HTML5 phonegap app very recently on a samsung galaxy Tab 2 and couldn't help notice how sluggish the overall feeling was, even for extremely basic UI animations (had to switch to 3D CSS transformations to make sure 3D hardware was used). If I understood correc…

Do you mean "canvas" instead of HTML5 for your phonegap app?

nope. using 3d css transforms sometimes speed css transitions up by making sure 3d graphic card is used. that's a secret tip i learned on ios and it works on android as well.

Re: Samsung's future is Tizen, not Android

#80

Post by Nursie »

tjoff wrote: post #56
corresation wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really looking to defend Samsung -- their TVs and blu-ray players have terrible software (though on the gray bar bit, clearly that was an entirely intentional choice. Plasmas do that specifically because otherwise you will very quickly have a center portion of the screen that is dimmer than the outer portion, so the gray balances the wear. While LCD is supposedly immune to this, I once had a set that suffered…

I actually forgot that it probably had to do with a plasma tv, that's true, there is a reason for it. "You're kind of veering to the point of insulting people" Not my intention, but I guess it's my way of responding to the gimmicky features Samsung pushes - instead of focusing on usability. Something that I think the galaxy S4 promo videos demonstrate quite clearly. It's great that they try but in the end it ruins th…

So what is touchwiz?

I've a Note and never really noticed what it is or does. I replaced the launcher with Apex, just because and... I'm just not sure what touchwiz is at this point or how it might be making my experience worse?

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