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Just Use Sublime Text

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Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#71

Post by elteto »

lowboy wrote: post #64
elteto wrote: post #44

Every time I read these comparisons I can't help but picture two guys arguing about screwdrivers: Guy 1: Hey, mine is a flat head, definitely better! Guy 2: Nah, mine is a Torx, shiny and fancy, definitely superior!! And these two guys always seem to forget that one works as a carpenter and the other one services electronics. I can't see much rationality in the argument.

As an occasional carpenter, Robertson or Philips are far superior and I can't see any carpenter choosing a slot (flathead) over them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Robertson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips

Thanks for the info! But you are missing the point entirely (or rather proving it).

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#72

Post by catenate »

msutherl wrote: post #31
jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

As somebody who recently switched from Vim to SublimeText, I agree and disagree with much in the article, but the point about the mouse is interesting. For years I believed that eschewing the mouse was speeding me up. But I recently had the pleasure of working with a fine gentleman, and a SublimeText user, who is an absolute fiend with the mouse. He has considerably more development experience than I, so it is not an…

In my experience (11 years with Emacs, then 8 years with Wily/Acme-SAC/Acme) using the mouse is much more efficient than typing to move the cursor and select text. Acme takes it a step further by binding cut and paste to mouse chords. Guide files are the big win, though, since I edit and reissue commands (highlight and middle-click) instead of retyping them.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#73

Post by derengel »

jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

"700 hand written lines in my .vimrc, and 45 plugins" I may have found the problem. Learn to use the editor.

This ^^, say no more.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#74

Post by kragen »

This seems overdone to me. Vim out of the box is a perfectly adequate text editor, and all you need to know to use it is /?xiap ESC 99dd :wq! and the arrow keys. With gq (formerly Q, RIP) you can then edit text. hlJGwbvn.fF;#% help too, especially for code, and c is nice, especially ci, which is a Vim innovation. ^F and ^B move around. Then, if you're programming, you probably want to build a tags file and use ^] and ^T. Vim has g] and g^], which sound like they'd be nice for OO, but honestly I never use them, because at the point where I want an IDE instead of a text editor, I switch to Emacs. I use Vim every day for non-code things, though.

Learning the above is not going to take you two years or probably even two weeks.

This is my .vimrc:

    set tabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab autoindent incsearch hlsearch
    syntax enable
I've been using vi (and vim) since 1996, when I had vi installed locally on my workstation but had to load Emacs from NFS over a shared 10Mbps Ethernet. A few months later my roommate Payton Whitaker (RIP) made fun of me for using elvis, so I switched to vim, and I've been using it ever since, on probably half a dozen operating systems.

I've been using Emacs since 1993, but I used Epsilon for a few years before that. I've also used Eclipse, IDEA, Visual Studio, Squeak, and XCode, among other excellent development tools. I've also written a game in locally-hosted DHTML using TextEdit (from F-Droid) on Android, which was painful. The difference is just not that big.

An IDE is not going to turn you into a hacker. Just understand the system, look for limitations, and obliterate them.

That will make you a hacker.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#75

Post by bcoates »

Puer wrote: post #42
ebbv wrote: post #25

Am I the only person in the world who: a) Never thought vim was that hard to learn (and I first learned it when I was a teenager and nobody helped me. I switched when someone on a MUD made fun of me for using pico.) and b) Thinks vanilla vim works just fine. Seriously my vimrc is like 10 lines long and I don't even have it on every server I work on. I don't bother with any plugins. I don't need vim integrated with gi…

I switched from nano to vim a few hours ago. When I first installed Arch Linux all those months ago I was intimidated when I was presented with the choice between nano, the default, and vim, "for experts only." When I used vim for the first time today I expected it to be a lot more "difficult" based on everything I had read/heard prior, but after reaching the Arch Wiki entry I was able to hop right in with no difficu…

Just out of curiosity, what made you decide to change? I've never felt a strong motivation to not just keep using pico/nano, actually putting effort into learning a text editor strikes me as the weirdest hobby ever.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#76

Post by baby »

Can't agree more. I've tried learning Emacs for a very long time. I've read the emacs tutorial (which wasn't that easy to read) and now I'm having a hard time using it. I don't really know how I can get better, I always hit the wrong keys, I always forget how to do one thing...

In the end I just gave up and learned Sublime Text 2 (on the free tutorial on tutsplus). In one day I was amazingly efficient.

I'm glad I learned emacs because I can use it in a terminal. But when I'm not in a terminal, I have no idea why a modern programmer would go through heaven and hell just to learn an IDE when Sublime Text 2 let you code directly and learn along the way.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#77

Post by jussij »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #68
ths wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the mouse were quicker on average for long jumps, the moving of the hand from mouse to keyboard feels like more of a combo breaker, more distracting. Speed is very important, but equally important is for the editing experience to have a low attention footprint to leave more space for the train of thought behind the changes being made.

As someone who uses a keyboard 98% of the time, but who uses a GUI editor and the mouse when it makes sense, I'd say the mouse is useful for several things, and what it IS useful for WILL be faster than what someone can do with a keyboard. The clear win is using a powerful GUI-based editor that has tons of keyboard commands. Bonus points for being on Windows or Linux (i.e., not Mac OS) so you can navigate/BROWSE the…

> there are things I find imperfect about it (the scripting language is usable, for instance, but has it's own syntax and quirks).

In terms of scriptable editors, the Zeus editor is scriptable in Lua, Python, TCL or JavaScript, but it is native to Windows: http://www.zeusedit.com/

Jussi Jumppanen

Author: Zeus IDE

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#79

Post by griffordson »

cjh_ wrote: post #52
griffordson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim literally saved my career. I have not found a mouse that I can use 8 hours a day (let alone 12+) that doesn't cause me severe hand and wrist pain after a few days. Using Vim, and Vim keyboard shortcuts in every program I can, is the only reason I can use a computer at all. And since I so rarely use a mouse now, I can actually occasionally play PC games again with a good weighted gaming mouse if I don't overdue it…

Similar story for me, I'm 21 and due to bad computer and mousing habits I have quite nasty RSI/OOS in my wrists. Switching to an ergonomic mechanical keyboard (kinesis advantage) and a keyboard-heavy workflow (vim) allows me to work as a developer. I can tell how often I resort to using the mouse each day by the pain when I get home (I have a trackball on my left hand side and a touchpad on my right hand side to try…

My current development machine is running Linux with Xmonad (Vim keybinds). I run console Vim inside Tmux (vim keybinds). I run Vimium in Chrome. I have also remapped the caps lock key to CTRL in every OS I use (all of them) to avoid reaching for the CTRL key. I've also retrained myself to use C^[ for ESC rather than remapping "," or something else. C^[ works in a lot of places too, so that is a nice bonus. I can usually code for hours without using the mouse at all unless I'm using Chrome's dev tools.

Before switching to Vim a few years ago I got a Comfort Keyboard to see if that would help. But after switching to Vim I find that I don't need anything other than a normal keyboard so far. I hope that doesn't change for the foreseeable future.

I hope you continue to find ways to improve your situation. It seems like things just keep getting better for those of us who need to avoid the mouse as much as possible.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#80

Post by baby »

TallboyOne wrote: post #69

These articles are just idiotic. Mouse as fast as the keyboard except a 'few edge cases'? Get out of here. Vim destroys using a mouse every day of the week, and unless the highest skillset you've learned is fingerpainting, it's not that hard. Sit down for 2 days, stop being a bitch, learn the keybindings, and you're good.

If you need to make a random selection somewhere far away in the text. The mouse was made to do that. Not a multiple keyboard combination.

( I mean "if you're using a trackpad").

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